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PTC OK's "no parking" off McIntosh paths

Starting in the fall, some McIntosh High School students will have to find a better place to park their golf carts.

The hope is that the school will be able to add about 60 to 80 new spaces by paving some additional parking area before the new school year starts, city officials said.

The Peachtree City Council Thursday approved the first-ever “no parking” area along a cart path. City staff showed photos of a cluster of golf carts, a few parked with two wheels still on the path, leaving a narrow opening for other carts to get through.

There were also photographs of litter in the area as well.

Scott Simon, who lives near the McIntosh practice field, told council that golf carts would go through his backyard, some driving through trees and others over his plants.

“We have tried to be flexible with the school, knowing that they have a problem,” Simon said.

Al Yougel of Keep Peachtree City Beautiful said that section of path “was atrocious” for litter.

The measure was approved over the objections of Councilman Doug Sturbaum, who wanted a written commitment from the school system that the project would indeed be completed in time for this school year.

Haddix said one issue exacerbating the golf cart parking problem at McIntosh is some students didn’t want to spend the money to purchase an on-campus parking permit.

“When that lot is not done, they’re going to park in the same place,” Sturbaum said. “... And we’ll be promoting deviant behavior. My mind’s not going to change on this.”

Councilwoman Kim Learnard said even if the school is unable to construct the additional parking, the city still should not let students park off the paths near the school.

Sturbaum preferred to delay a decision until the parking lot was in place. But by acting now the city and the school will have plenty of time to educate students before the off-path parking ban goes into effect, said resident Robert Brown, who lives near the school.

City staff has recommended to school officials that each golf cart permit be assigned a number designated to a given space, so even if the student is late to school, their space would still be available.

The use of off-path parking instead of the school’s on-campus parking lot worsened earlier this year, Simon said, when students were no longer allowed to park in the nearby Lexington Circle shopping center because it is private property.



Dondol's picture

I am just floored, this has to be the most reactionary, uncalled for, chicken S--T move the City Council has ever done. Mr. Mayor you need to get off of your butt and go over to McIntosh and take a look at the Golf Cart parking area, it is absolutely FULL, I am over at the school on a regular basis and there is no way to sell any more parking passes because there is no where to put them. The main reason these kids are parking there is because the parking across Walt Banks where the extras have been parking for the last 2-3 years is being paved in hopes of selling the property (as he has been trying to do for the last 10 years) not because its private property. My child and 3 of their friends were talking about this yesterday and the way the city treats the kids around here and their comment was this is why when they graduate college they don't move back to live and raise their kids here. But on the other side I am glad to see that Doug Sturbaum has come out of his shell and is NOT voting in lockstep with you, maybe there's a glimmer hope somewhere on the Council. One would think that one would want kids driving Golf carts to school to save on fuel and decrease the emissions, I will tell you my eyes have been opened, You are not better than Harold Logsdon. God help us for the next 3.5 years.

How about 20 or more golf cart drivers show up on your yard every day to park without your permission? And leaving their trash everywhere?
Lexington Park is privately owned. The paths are owned by the city. Both have a right to say who can park there. Or not. If you have a beef, call the BOE. Both properties needed to be cleaned up due to the trash your little muffy and biff leave behind. (Ask Keep PTC Beautiful how much). The kids abused this privilege, so presto, it has been taken away. And it WAS a privilege. Life is tough, get used to it.
Prime Point parking should have been included, too. But, we'll work on that next.
I'm sure you encouraged your kid and the 3 friends to whine about this. Look at the example you set. Boo hoo.

Dondol's picture

I would be willing to bet that you don't live any where near the area that is being talked about and that you don't have kids at McIntosh. Also, I believe that there is a 20ft buffer between the cart paths and property lines. I agree that the trash is a problem that needs to be addressed but it was not a problem (or heard about) until they closed down the parking at Lexington Park. You want to talk about trash, what about the mounds of trash that the city has to clean-up after the 4th of July, the majority of which comes from people that are not tax payers in this city. But that's ok because the majority are probably to intoxicated to worry about that and its easier to pick on a bunch of kids. I can just imagine that if you were fortunate enough to have kids what they went through with your attitude. You need to quit thinking like a 90 year old and try to remember what it was like when you were a kid, but I'm sure that all you remember was that you were perfect in every way. And no I don't encourage my kids to think or react in any way, I have always told my kids to be their own person and think and vote with their heart and good reason, a lesson you could learn. <strong>Boo Hoo to you!</strong>

Dondol, Many people have the same misconception you do about property lines. In reality the property line can be as close as 5 feet from the golf cart path. Of course, if there is a designated area for green space then those rules would be different.

One of the best ways is to look at the GIS map on the Fayette County website and you can get a feel for how far the property line is. However, easiest way to find real the truth is to use a cheap metal detector to find the property stakes.

The 20ft. easement is for utilities, not for parking. I thought the cart paths have to be clear to allow emergency vehicles to get through?

G35 Dude's picture

So you think the kids have the right to park and litter anywhere they please? Hey they're the ones that blew it. Let them ride the bus now.

thecakeisalie's picture

So when the 400 students who park off campus flood the buses and the school has buy new ones and pay drivers, we can come to you? And when 60+ buses stop every 10 feet in front of your car so you're late to work, you wont complain? Oh wait, your probably retired and sipping your coffee in front of a computer only slightly younger than you.

Student at MHS

G35 Dude's picture

You're grasping at straws. FCBOE has enough buses and drivers to accommodate another 400 McIntosh students without even a hiccup. Most high school buses travel at no more than 50-60% capacity. Why? Because most high schoolers won't ride because they think it's beneath them. Still since elementary kids do ride so the capacity has to be there. If you think whats happening is wrong then report your schoolmates that break the rules that is costing all of you the privilege that you seem to see as a right. Solve your problem by doing more than just complaining. YOU DO NOT HAVE A "RIGHT" TO DRIVE A CART TO SCHOOL!

No, reporting schoolmates who do wrong should not be the first step to correction--first step is to approach them directly and ask them if they are aware that they are jeopardizing priviliges for everyone and tell them to knock it off. Yes, it may gain you some unpopularity, but it's the right thing to do.

thecakeisalie's picture

I'd like to see you approach a half baked drug addict and ask them why they threw their coke can on the ground. The problem here is not the garbage it's the old codgers in PTC trying to turn this city into an old folks home. We are not second class citizens just because we don't vote. We have rights. I don't see how you all can believe we will roll over and take any command given to us by adults. We are about to inherit billions of dollars in debt and pay for your retirement, and hopefully funeral services. We are way beyond waking up when we turn 18 and all of a sudden having an opinion. Just because you all were too stupid and servile in 1950's (not to mention fearing communist accusations) doesn't me we are. Times are changing and some of us have strong opinions and intend to express them.

My opinion is that we have a right to attend school using whatever form of transportation we choose. And if the city takes away parking on cart paths around MHS, they better be prepared to expand parking on campus. The school shouldn't have to pay for it and neither should we! On another point, there are adults in PTC who litter as much as we do. If you care so much about the aesthetics of the cart paths, then don't blame it on us without any proof. Do something about the adults as well.

Student at MHS


Cyclist's picture

This blog is getting hilarious. I need the laugh. Thanks all!!!!

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

thecakeisalie's picture

I know. I got all my work done early so I'm bored out of my mind. This is really just entertainment. I'm graduating this year so I really don't care! Its fun to piss off old folks though. Nice stress venting :D

Student at MHS

carbonunit52's picture

There once was a male (not I) who, as a teenager, was really into smashing mailboxes, he had a name for the sport, called it "Gonking", had an old delivery truck with sliding doors, perfect for getting close and getting a good swing. Even made the papers. As an adult, someone smashed his mailbox, and Oh My Goodness, the consternation that it caused him!

Should good fortune provide you with an opportunity to be an "old folk", please keep in mind your recent postings, and appreciate the fun that a teenager will be having at your expense.

I think thecakeisalie will be just fine. He/she managed to get some of our long-time bloggers arguing with a child over something that is already decided on by city council. You have to respect somthing like that.

By the way, your user name.

thecakeisalie's picture

Thank you! I(he) love(s) portal :D
I like arguing with adults. Better than "that's what she said" jokes and incoherent babbling. I hope that one day teens will argue with me and that I will have the strength to argue back.

"My robotic legs my be rusting but I can still verbally whip you young whippersnappers!"

Student at MHS

Cyclist's picture

Well I did get all of my work done and now I'm stuck in Paris because of this stupid volcano. I don't have any idea when I'm coming home and my hotel room is not guaranteed after Wednesday and every hotel around the area is full with other stranded travelers. So yes, I do find your whining over such an insignificant thing most hilarious.

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

thecakeisalie's picture

Ouch! Hope you get out soon. Sleeping at the airport is no fun so I hope you get a room. :)

Student at MHS

I am happy to see a teen bothering with the news. I may not agree with you but am glad to see you interfacing with adults (even though some are immature older folks)

G35 Dude's picture

Do you have any answers to this problem besides to kill off all of the old folks? Your rants of entitlement do nothing but further the view that most of you are spoiled little brats. But at least you are entertaining.*LOL*

Gee I am going to be one of them. But I think Obama care will get rid of quit a few so they dont have to cover them with insurance.

G35 Dude's picture

Hey Normal, I think you're on to something. Maybe thecakeisalie is really Obama. Maybe that's why he hates the old folks so much. I mean have you ever seen them both together? And neither one has a productive solution to anything.

thecakeisalie's picture

Ouch! Burn considering I despise the socialist in chief! Nah, I just hate suburbia. Like you said . . . I'm just a whining teen. Considering my GPA, I'm the last of your worries. :P

Student at MHS

At least you can finish out your year parking in the woods on private property. It is the Fayette school boards problem to provide safe parking for students. NOT THE CITY. These are not city schools so that was easy to fix. Now McIntosh is very lucky to have golf cart parking. Stars Mill cant bring golf carts to school. How dumb is that. And you are absolutely right about older drivers. Ive seen many more speeding carts and trash from older folks than kids. In fact every day I am out kids always smile and wave. Most older adults are gumpy and speeding like they are late for their funeral. Just look around when you are out. The best ones are the single oldies with a golf bag either racing to the course or racing home. Stop and smell the roses you all. Now I think the baby kroger would be a great teen center for under 18. Perfect empty location. The city should get it started. Just dont let that bonkers moron near it. That blogger hates everything and every body.

Wow. You know I bet none of the homeowners in that area would have ever complained about the problem, if it hadn't been for all of the property damage and the liter. The kids ruined this one for themselves. Tough.

If we cant park on the paths "around" mcintosh, then we will just start parking alittle farther. And what about the other people just within the city that park and block the path? Might as well just ban parking on ANY cart path to make it fair.

PTC is run like a 55 and up only community now. No progress, no pragmatic reasoning just reactionary old farts flailing about. The city counsel and the mayor should get in a golf cart, travel to MHS on a rainy morning and try to park with the rest of the young citizens (and tax payers) that attend school there and then haul 60 lbs of books into McIntosh. Then and only then they should discuss how to best serve the 1300 young citizens (that they work for) attending the school. The needs of the property owners around MHS and non-student golf cart riders in the area can be met without sticking it to students.

thecakeisalie's picture

As if! The city treats us like dependents who are supposed to shut up and listen to what big bro- i mean grandpa says. Our lives are not purely academic you know. Even the best in the school would like to have fun without having to leave for another state. Put in a under-18 dance club, think of the tax revenue.

Student at MHS

NUK_1's picture

Teen clubs are money losers, not revenue generators. In every major city, they have failed, failed and failed again. If anyone thought they could make a buck with a teen club, they would be all over the place instead of out of business within a year or begging for tax money.

why don't all the fine teens in PTC that always mention "teen club" open one up? I've heard the roar for years....why not after graduating some of you put your money up and try it? Hell, if PTC is too "conservative," do it in the Atlanta area. Let us know how that goes.

thecakeisalie's picture

I might if PTC would allow it, which they wouldn't. "No it's not Christian friendly!" I was mentioning that as an exaggerated example. There are plenty of businesses that would be willing to come to PTC for teens, they're always run off by old farts who are afraid of anything new! We could have easily lived in Atlanta, and considering that many of our parents commute there every day we should have. But we wanted the best school we could get. PTC only exists because of the MHS. Name one thing that PTC has that would keep it running if MHS was shut down. The whole economy of PTC is biased on Delta Pilots who send their kids to MHS!

Student at MHS

idk_revisited's picture

"The whole economy of PTC is biased on Delta Pilots who send their kids to MHS!"

Wow, you sure are a kid, aren't ya?

OK, let's say there are 2000 kids at McIntosh (500 per grade). Assuming everybody has two parents still living together in PTC, that's 6000 of the city's nearly 37,000 residents. Let's say you have a brother or sister, too, so we'll say 8,000....

OK, we'll double the amount by including Starrs Mill (there's a school down there too?) OK, so 16,000 of the 37, that's half, and I'm being generous.

So who's the other 50% living in town, eh?

As far as your comments on a teen dance club....yeah....we've had two of them in town, both failed. We've had a movie theater, two skating rinks...all no longer here. Why?

Students do have rights - they have a right to an education and transportation to get there; it's called a school bus. For those more privileged, they could pay for a parking pass and park in the lot. If you don't make it to school on time and the lot's full, you are S.O.L. - go ahead and park next to the path you assume is a free-for-all, and I hope they send a ticket to your parents and tow your cart away.

And before you call me a fuddy-duddy - I graduated from McIntosh (and not the first class in 1984). I got to park my car in the parking lot senior year - a car I paid for, not one mommy and daddy bought me.

Get a good education and go to college - far away from here. When you have kids, you'll want to come back and raise them here. Right now, just focus on your education and do what you're told. Parking on private property isn't a right or a privilege, it's trespassing. Parking on the side of a path is an invitation for a traffic ticket as of July 1 near McIntosh.

Park it farther away, and enjoy your time in I.S.S for being tardy too many times.

The "5-foot" rule is called an easement - the City asks for permission to put that path on private property, or it's in city greenbelt - both places where parking is against the rules.

If there are 400 kids parking off-campus, that's nearly an entire class of students.

Get on the bus, you spoiled brats!

thecakeisalie's picture

Sorry I cant even follow rules of nature (figure it out). So what makes you think I'm going to sit down and shut up? No need to do any math . . . it is the weekend after all. I know it is all over with and students next year will have problems to deal with. I just want to assure you all that I wont be the last student to protest the demands of the city.

Student at MHS

Or so it seems here in PTC. Many adults are scared nearly to death one will be approved and teens will have a place to go where they are supervised. Why, do you know these things cost money to run properly? That it requires several volunteers and a few paid adults to manage the place? Then the next thing you know some liberal will say that they should have a place similar to a college student union there.
Then the TEA people would say, "do you know they require teens and responsible parents or guardians to register with a membership and they they actually enter the data into a computer!" "Why who knows, the CIA may have access to that?" (OK for a terrorist but not me).

Now for those of you worried about mixing of the different cultures in such a place, we could go back to separate water fountains and sides of the rooms!
I suppose Hispanics and Asians and people from Belarus could be on which ever side they choose.

They often fail however due to the amount of hard work it takes from responsible people to run them! And the fact that religion, culture, and wealth often enter into consideration for some.

We send them off to college at 17-18 with a credit card and a knowledge of how to mix drinks, with absolutely no supervision (Academies excepted) and say, whew, hope they survive.

thecakeisalie's picture

Between the 20mins forced into the school day by the Board of Education and the parking issues McIntosh has to feel a bit roughed up. The students, ah-hem, always blame the nearest authority figure, making it harder to make improvements that are really necessary. As someone who parks behind the school, I have to point out that since the parking area across the street was removed the number of cars and carts has doubled. If the city thinks that they can mandate additional parking without creating serious problems, they have a huge surprise ahead. By having multiple parking areas traffic is reduced for students and others who are trying to get to work using the roads around MHS. Why don't we all buy cars and see how you like that traffic? A crash every five feet; not to mention PTC cops who do their job oh so well! So are we all expected to pay to park? We already put a nonrefundable "deposit" on a locker; it seems like I should take the money I yearly invest in MHS and go back to private school. Good luck!

Student at MHS

The nearest authority figure in this case is your parent(s). And it will be till you turn 18 or later. So talk to them.
Where is it written anywhere that you have a RIGHT to drive ANYTHING to school? Your responsibility is to be in class when class is in session. And get your education. If your parents want to pay for it, that is their decision. Although, I don't think you can drive the little cart to private school. Anything outside of that is not a city issue nor a BOE issue. Both of these entities have been put in the middle of this by the lack of maturity by your classmates in the trash, path blocking, and violation of private property. If you suggest an accident every five feet, maybe we should consider raising the driving age in PTC, also. Think about what you post here before you post it.
Ask your parents why they weren't at the meeting to discuss this, also.

The students have the same rights that you have. That includes the right to use the public path system they help pay for to transport themselves to school. I, for one, am damn happy that they are on the cart path in the morning and not in cars on 54 with the other crazies that I share a commute to work with. The litter problem is simple...the Beta club at McIntosh is always looking for opportunities for more community service hours and I am sure they would gladly create a weekly project for students to do a weekly trash patrol around the whole school. If the BOE provided adequate parking spaces for all students on the parking lot and didn't use the lot as a revenue opportunity, all students would gladly park in the proper place. They don't charge teachers to park cars there, why charge students? The revenue is clearly not being used to maintain or grow the parking resources. The city is acting with complete disregard for the needs of the students, the BOE is simply not acting, and you are acting like a child by slamming the ideas and suggestions of our youngest citizens. Grow up!

No, you're wrong. The students do NOT have the same rights that I have.
So where was BETA club hiding during all this??
Take it to the BOE.
The city's responsibility is to the taxpayers, not the students.
The students have done NOTHING about this.
No, I live in this city where adults run the city, not the schoolkids. Tell me, where was your rebuttal to this change at the meeting? Whine, whine, whine.

thecakeisalie's picture

Please name one thing you've given back to society! All you do is sit and complain that things aren't going your way. This is NOT your city its OURS. MHS is the best school, academically, for miles. If it weren't for us keeping up the reputation, this city would be crawling with people on welfare!
We may not be able to vote or drink, but we have the right to learn. If we want to learn we have to be able to get to school. Don't forget that were doing the school system a favor by providing our own transportation. All we want is a free, painless way to park at school. I want to know exactly what the school does with the money we are now being forced to pay for parking.

Student at MHS

An impertinent old gink with out a clue. All citizens of PTC have the same rights.

NUK_1's picture

Most high school students don't even have the right to vote, enter into contracts, or drink a beer. Somehow I don't see all citizens of PTC having the same rights at all.

thecakeisalie's picture

I refuse to accept your archaic view of how teenagers are expected to behave. First off we are not servile maggots for our parents and corpses like you to order around. My parents, both mature, reasonable and hard working, treat me like an adult as long as I act like one. I get good grades and have a job because I know that my future rests on my abilities to act on my own, NOT my ability to follow orders. How can I be successful if I obey everyone but myself. It's this master and servant parenting that has created the idiots running the country now. They don't understand the value of independent hard work; all anyone does these days is wait around for someone to tell them what to do. I think I hear bleating! People like you, raised kids who expect the government to do it all for them. Let me guess: you cash a check from the government once a month, don't you?
Second, I don't expect my parents to fight my battles for me. I was attending to my responsibilities at work and was not able to attend the meeting. I would have attended even knowing that my opinion would be cast aside because of my age.
Some of peers throw trash on the ground. Some of them also do drugs and fail out of school! Do Not lump us all together.

Student at MHS

How many ways can you prove my point?

point in your life you WILL have to follow orders from someone. Having lived through two successful careers (one military, one civilian) I can tell you that it's just a matter of reality. While I don't live n PTC, what I read is all true, it tells me that students have not used common sense in parking and been poor citizens by trashing certain areas. For all wrong decisions and actions, there are consequences. While I agree the Ordinance may approach "mass punishment", it appears there may not be many other solutions available.

thecakeisalie's picture

I'm perfectly fine following orders. My boss tells me what to do, my teachers, etc. I however don't follow them blindly; I expect decent reasoning. I appreciate what the military does, and I understand why following orders is important in that case. But if we don't question orders from our leaders, we might as well be a communist country.
We can't let the council rule our lives, nor our administrators. If we want parking, we have to make sure they listen to what we have to say. They can remove off campus parking, but they must provide alternatives; preferably free ones.

Student at MHS

Anyone ever thought of running a shuttle service from a nearby parking lot? Are there large, unused parking lots near the school that could be used with a shuttle running back and forth? It's not ideal, but it's something to think about.

Clearly there has to be a valid solution other than just making more no-parking areas. If a school is going to stuff 2000 kids into its building, it needs to accomodate for parking. You're mandating that they attend, make room for them. Don't expect them to ride the bus. It's hot, noisy, and really no fun. A golf cart is fun, makes little pollution, is relatively safe at 19mph, and keeps kids off the main highways.

Kids driving across the corner of someone's yard is a small price to pay for safety in general. In my neighborhood I don't care if kids run through the yard. Other neighbors have a fit. Take a chill pill. Let the kids park where they want and give it a rest already. This isn't a big deal.

thecakeisalie's picture

Thank you Mike for being a reasonable person. I apologize for some of my peers who may drive on your lawn. Although it could be elderly drivers who need new glasses. :P
The shuttle, unfortunately, would cause problems with being late to class. It's also nice to be able to control when we arrive at school. If we need to see a teacher before class, we can't wait around for a shuttle to get us there.

Student at MHS

It is paid for by the tax payers. It's called big yellow.

[quote=skyspy]It is paid for by the tax payers. It's called big yellow.[/quote]

Maybe we should cut the big yellow busses money and let the kids park there carts!!! This will solve a ton - now my son will drive a car instead!

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