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PTC gas cart ban question goes to online survey

UPDATED Tuesday, July 27, 2010 — A proposal to ban gasoline-powered golf carts in Peachtree City would grandfather them for 10 years before none would be allowed to operate on the city’s street and cart paths.

The proposal, in ordinance form, is scheduled to be considered at the Aug. 5 meeting of the Peachtree City Council.

The gas-powered cart ban also is being brought up for an informal vote among residents in an online survey hosted by the city. The survey can be accessed at www.surveymonkey.com/s/TVYC729.

The survey asks gas cart owners to explain why they purchased a gas cart instead of an electric-powered model. All cart owners are also asked if they support, oppose or are neutral towards the proposed ban.

Gas golf carts have drawn complaints from residents due to noise, odor and at least a perception that they go faster than electric carts.

Gas carts also have a bit of an advantage over electric carts since they can be easily refilled when empty. Electric carts must be taken out of service for charging.

Of the city’s 10,496 registered golf carts, just 5 percent are gasoline powered, according to city records.

Mayor Don Haddix has said the city also may have to consider grandfathering in the existing inventory of gas golf carts at local cart dealers.

Haddix said he has received a number of emails already supporting a ban on gas-powered golf carts.

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Comments

Reduce the grandfather clause to 5 years. Ten years is too long.

MajorMike's picture

Negative on any elimination or reduction of any grandfather clause. I own a gas powered cart. Due to some physical injuries I haven't used it in over a year but it is quiet, licensed, insured, and well maintained. By the time you replace batteries in an electric cart and pay the electric bill for recharging. There is little, if any, difference in environmental impact and very possibly a negative impact by electric carts due to the manufacture of LEAD batteries.

Am I going to roll over for the proposed restrictions - I don't think so. I don't think it's going to be legally feasible for the city to pursue this.

Mike King's picture

Our Mayor and Council have much bigger fish to fry than get the citizens all stirred up over gas versus electric carts. Could it be that they want to divert attention from the budget so they can slip funding for DAPC and a tax hike on us? For the ban to take effect, likely ten years will have passed.

Just saying.

That's fuel discrimination.

Pull your gas guzzling golf cart over right now and Blackberry us your resignation! We will not stand for discrimination.

Cyclist's picture

I'm curious, what emissions standards will PTC use? Additionally, what about every gas powered lawnmower, string trimmer and blower will they be tested as well? Or is that pollution acceptable?

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Unless you gas powered lawn tools are grandfathered-in you will have to buy electric from now on.

Unless you gas powered lawn tools are grandfathered-in you will have to buy electric from now on.

It is my opinion that Fayette County's politicians pollute the air far more than lawn mowers! They cost a bundle with all of the open polls also.

Does Shirley of Agriculture have a paid driver? Seemed to on the TV! Thought you might know.

Just another typical PTC "much ado about not nuch" issue that is not worth one minute of consideration. C'mon Mayor, I would have thought NAVSECGRU would have taught you to distinguish between important and irrelevant.

Mike King's picture

Yes, but it does divert attention from what is important.

Cyclist's picture

Did you ever see one of infamous East German cars.... the Trabant. Yikes were those ever so nasty with those smelly 2 stroke engines. Anyways, I don't know of any engine manufacturer today that still produces 2 stroke engines the size needed for golf carts. I think they all went to 4 stroke engines. They’re much more fuel efficient and cleaner running.

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

There are less than five hundred of these things in our town. I live near a pretty major path entrance and I rarely even see one of these. Personally I don't like them but I don't think they are enough of a nuisance to ban them. We can't just make an ordinance every time somebody calls city hall and says they don't like something.

If we have to make a new law, how about a speed limit? The safety issue and noise issue could both be resolved with a speed limit. Gas golf carts aren't that loud when they leave the show room. They get loud when they are poorly maintained and when people try to make them faster using after market parts. A speed limit won't help the maintenance but it could prevent people from adding load custom performance exhaust kits.

How about the city council and staff declare a moratorium on new ways to invade the lives, property, and daily routines of the citizens?

(1) These carts have been legal since the inception of the path system.

(2) How does the fact that they are easier to refuel and go-again become a basis for more strict regulation?

(3) And they constitute a problem because they are "perceived" -- this... that, or the other?? By whom.. and how many??

(4) I would love to see the scientific research --if any, that has led to this consideration of changing the ordnance.

Are Mr. Mayor and Co. so un-busy they sense the need to take a redux ride on their pop-politics (green) bandwagon?

It's a novel approach to improving life in PTC...

BUT WHAT IF:
We use those elected, coordinated and well-paid braincells to tackle the budget problems, and re-shuffle the priorities of city spending, thus keeping property taxes from rocketing sky-high.

Does your "reshuffle" mean: layoff about 10-15%?

Who sells gas carts around here? What does he think?

They are always too fast is their only fault here. Electrics slow down as they expire. Too much traffic for gas.

It would be hard to take. Ban'em. Grandfather for 10 years is fine with me, folks that have them shouldn't be penalized any time soon.

I said many times that if I were king I would ban those stinky things. I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone stupid enough to buy and use them. They stink and are noisy. So am I but even I don't put out as much pollution as those stinky things.

You mean they are more stinky than semi-trailers and delivery trucks? Even Diesel pick-ups?
Even developers and builders grading machines?
You must not own a gas cart business.

Haven't seen a single semi-trailer or delivery truck on the golf cart paths or a diesel pick up truck. Never a single one.

Just because you don't drive your car on the paths doesn't mean I don't have to breath in your fumes any ware else around town.

I suppose you have one of those E-Cars that you drive to work.

Do you cut your lawn with an electric lawn mower?

If not, than shut up!

All local and perhaps all golf courses do not allow gas golf carts on their links and haven't for years and years.

hutch866's picture

There are several courses around that have gas carts.

I yam what I yam

which ones?

hutch866's picture

The Links, Griffin city course, couple in Pike county, several courses around here.

I yam what I yam

how many of those are in PTC or Fayette County? Jes' wonderin'.

hutch866's picture

the Pike county ones aren't, the Griffin city course isn't, (do you really need me to tell you this) the Links are in Fayette, and believe it or not, just because something isn't located in PTC, doesn't lessen the truth. For that matter, I'm not located in PTC either. Don't change anything.

I yam what I yam

Mike King's picture

No ban on gas carts at local PTC courses. Actually should you compare costs over the long run they are pretty much a wash. Hillier courses normally have the gas models due to elevation changes as electric carts may not have the power to last a second eighteen holes.

Now would be a great time to also pre-ban these mopeds putt putting around everywhere with the oil burning motors, because that's where everyone is going to go anyway

they were allowed on the path system but they are not, are they?

but they will then start clogging up the roads

Replacing batteries on an electric costs about $700 if you take it to a local cart dealer every 5 years. My gas cart has a governor and is actually slower than the average electric (my option). Yes, there is a petrol aroma as one passes others, but need a study on the environmental study on the handling nd disposal of lead batteries, while we are at it. Speed is actually the big problem, and it relates to both systems. I think a 10 year grandfather deadline is fair, if the gas cart is banned.

Cyclist's picture

The vast majoity are recycled and the remaining lead is smelted down for other applications.

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Wouldn't be better if we smelt batteries down than smell up (paths, that is) with gas? It would smell better all the way around.

Cyclist's picture

I would rather have the "gas".

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

I would rather not have to deal with gas. Nor with anyone else having gas.

Especially on the path.

Cyclist's picture

where my seat mate was having gas. LONG FLIGHTS

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Must have smelt baaad.

So now I know why the crew comes walking down the aisle once every once in a while. And here I thought it was to check things out, look at the wings. Silly me.

Cyclist's picture

Rolling down a window is not an option.

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

not. If it was, I guess it would give new meaning to the term, "passing gas".

Speaking of gas, I have to get into my gas powered vehicle and go get my peaches now. Ta ta for now.

The human body couldn't function very long without using gas. We don't like to discuss it but it is a natural function. Of course some people are so grand that their gas doesn't have an odor. During the horse and buggy days in cities, many jobs were provided by shovel scooper people cleaning up often after the horses and the horse carriages pulled by horses. The "ladies" turned their head and wrinkled their noses!
I have noticed on "Gunsmoke" with Matt Dillon, that they didn't have any of these clean-up guys---they simply waded through it---Chester kept the Marshall's office swept out of dried boot fallings! The coffee on the pot-belly kept the odor down.

The moats around castles in Europe were stinky places, I don't care how often they showed Tyrone Power or Robin Hood jumping into them to escape. The open toilets in the castle dropped directly into the moat.
No wonder no enemy wanted to cross them.
I once saw such toilets in Ephesus (SP) Turkey, or was it Greece, where Saint Paul served, and they ran directly into the bay where the port was located. No one ever swam ashore or caught any fish from the bay.

Those people in general also wore their clothes until they dropped off them from dirt and rot.

Just wanted to let you know just how well we have it.

Cyclist's picture

You know I was wondering when you were going to get around to one of your off-the-wall commentaries. This one is really "stinky"; kind of like.......well like "bad gas". Go easy on those beans buddy.

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Once in awhile I feel compelled to let the current generation of adults and some youth know that people of different times did not live anywhere near as we do now. It proves just what might happen in the next 100 years or so if we don't care.

It is amazing how many people now didn't dream that London about died out in the 1700s and early 1800s from running sewage pf their sudden population increases into the Thymes (or is it Tim's) River----right where they drew drinking water! Cholera about did them all in until a savvy engineer thought of how to build adequate sewer lines (mostly pump lifts).

From 1700 backwards hygiene by humans was much worse than that of hogs.
Hey. they didn't even understand the use of soap.
Cleopatra bathed in goat's milk occasionally---they probably fed the poor when she was finished bathing!
I wasn't there but if I had been I wouldn't have been able to witness that.
Mark Anthony, the dirty Italian, would have killed me. Caesar didn't mind though.

Ever heard the expression "Some things are better left unsaid?" Now will you please stop!

.

They sit on the fence about dogs that kill people yet the're on a mission to ban gas golf carts. (good thing I have a CCW)

Just how is this going to improve life in PTC? Is the air going to get cleaner, are my taxes going to go down, am I going to get a discount on the next $700.00 set of batteries I’ll need to replace in 2 years, will my cart go slower, will there be less noise? What is it council?

Council wants a tax increase to pay for crap we did’t want in the first place and they think now’s a good time to show how powerful they are by telling us what is good for us even if we don’t care.

Just this week I got an email with a WEB poll from the Info officer, Betsy about gas golf carts, while I keep reading news articles about people getting maimed/killed by pit bulls. Where was the poll for dangerous dog's MR. Mayor? Damn good thing you didn’t release a poll about dogs that kill people.

It seems that the PTC council is ignorant about what really matters around here. The budget comes to mind. Expenses come to mind. Future enhancements to the city come to mind. But NO, let’s fixate on gas golf carts.

The previous administration was bad; it seems that the current one is just stupid!

They are totally against any form of MARTA yet they try to justify banning gas golf carts because of pollution. (Yes the air is getting thick around here but it's not the gas carts causing the problem)

They claim that gas powered golf carts are too fast, with absolutely no proof of any kind, yet we have local laws that dictate how fast a golf cart can go and the council choose not to insest that the police enforce the laws alread on the books.

We're facing an $18 MILLION + debt yet they insist on taking up valuable time having "staff" looking into a non-issue. By the way, what did that cost me?

I’m convinced this witch hunt is being lead by Haddox and Sturbaum. My message to them is to get your collective heads out of your collective @$$'s or a few years from now you two can kiss your current job goodbye!

Since when did we start taking actions from stupid surveys? What Mayor and council want will occur anyway no matter what the inaccurate survey shows.
They are aware that practically everyone in town want them to cut expenses (lay-off 10--15%) and they refuse to do that!
Dogs and cats seem to always be important though. Did you know there is a law to leash your cat and Doberman while walking them? Or, even more stupid---have them under "voice" control! Right, while the cat is eating a bird, and fouling up a flower bed next door, a dog is chasing the cat, and a neighbor is shooting the dog with a BB gun, while he fouls the street or yard while eating a mole! He saves his barking for nighttime or afternoon when some are sleeping from working nights!

How about them commercial lawn mowers that sound like 747s in take-off mode? Missiles from their props can cut a large sapling down! Even kill those dogs and cats.

There are some very important decisions needed in PTC. Of course budget being one, but I do hope we aren't forced by inaction now into eliminating the entire city organization along with all of the paid employees as is happening in many other municipalities in the USA!
It is being done where the Sheriff does the policing (no added employees), and all other very necessary things being contracted that can't be done by volunteers.
Folks, there is a recession, and depending upon definition, a depression coming soon. We lived on way too much commercial and individual credit for way too long. It will take years to allow those loses to adjust to a new economy.
It is just a matter of whether we want a depression to occur almost immediately by spending less, or spending more to put off the inevitable!

Those with their fortune and pension safely stashed want a depression now. Those who have little to live on do not!
Some sort of compassion is needed.

Cyclist's picture

Really! So you have no confidence either, eh? Have you told JeffC about this???????

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Yes, I am confident that we haven't hit the bottom as of yet!
Got little use for those people who with one leg missing from a shotgun blast from his 6 year old, just bought his 5 year old a new shotgun! I am not a believer that false positivity accomplishes anything at all---admitting problems and solving them NOW does.
Didn't Oxendine do something like that? No, his son shot a contributor I think.

What are you talking about? Maybe I missed it but I don't recall any news about an epidemic of dog maulings and killings of people in PTC. Do dogs sometimes attack people? Uh...yeah....always have and always will. As for gas golf carts, ban 'em! They are noisy as hell and yes, they do add to the pollution even though not to the degree cars do obviously.

borntorun, not long ago the city council was having a terrible time trying to decide if dogs should be allowed to remain free to roam the cart paths under their owners 'voice control'.

We have had a number people attacked by loose dogs in PTC, the mayor being one.

The debate went on for several weeks with hundreds of emails and posts both for and against with no action on the councils part.

Search "leash law" on the Citizen. Then Google, "dog attacks, Atlanta".
Reported just yesterday, <a href="http://www.wsbtv.com/news/24374219/detail.html">Boy Loses Part Of Ear In Dog Attack</a>

My point being that this council chose to do nothing about an actual, proven, documented danger to the citizens of PTC yet because some "perceive" gas carts to be bad this council is now moving full speed ahead to ban them with no proof or documentation.

I ask you, where was the city WEB survey about the leash law issue?

Yes, I remember the discussion about leash laws very well. However your original posting referenced people being mauled and killed here in PTC. And yes, anytime an animal attacks a human or another person's pet, that is a bad thing. I have had dogs come after me while running on our cart paths so I don't take the issue lightly. However, there have been no reported cases of people here in PTC being killed in PTC by loose dogs. And for the record, I am against voice controls. If you use the paths, put 'em on a leash.

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