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Peachtree City team's dreams dashed due to paperwork error

Peachtree City Little League officials learned late Thursday that their team had been stripped of its state championship and will not compete in the Southeast regional tournament that begins this weekend in Warner Robins.

The team from Columbus that Peachtree City defeated at state will move on to regionals.

The action came as a result of what one local official called “obscure administrative violations” regarding paperwork filed well before the state tournament.

The district administrator for the Peachtree City squad was notified at about 6:30 p.m. Thursday that the team was disqualified.

For a complete rundown of the events surrounding this decision, visit the Peachtree City Little League page on Facebook or www.ptcll.com.

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Comments

PTCLT's picture

This great town, nationally known for its outstanding recreation amenities, has mud on its face this week.

I lived here for 30+ years, raised 2 children that enjoyed the recreation leagues until they left for college.

As always it?__s the children that get hurt.

I think the following should happen:

1. Linda North (and Jen Colvin) should resign (this is a no-brainer).

2. PTCLL should stop trying to blame other teams and adults for what happened and stop with the ?__Well other teams also did this and that?_?.

3. Most of the board of PTCLL should resign. (If not the City should quietly ?__encourage?_? them to do so)

4. PTC city attorney should contact Williamsport and get the real facts.

5. League officials should stop posting on Facebook about this.

6. If some are found to have wantonly disregarded the rules they should be banned from all rec activities in PTC for 1-3 years.

7. The new PTC baseball organization should consider changing affiliation with LL. Most other parks in this area have. LL has grown into a big bloated bureaucracy with a rulebook that is larger than Major League Baseball that requires you to have a law degree to understand. It has lost sight of the real goal of getting young people playing ball. The whole association seems to have drifted towards post season play with ESPN dollars causing good people to make bad decisions

8. The city council should bring in the young men that were on this team, without coaches and parents, and commend them for their performance this year.

9. If Brandon Taylor is the man we hope he is he should bring in the boys, without parents and coaches, and use this as a teaching moment by: A. apologizing profusely. B. Explain what happened C. Make sure these boys KNOW they did nothing wrong. D. Resign

10. Drop any further action against LL. Start the healing.

Just some musings from an old coach, dad, former Rec league official and person who loves baseball, kids and Peachtree City

It's a shame the kids suffer.

There's way to much heresay going around. The city needs to find the truthful facts. And if I were the mayor, I would ask the league to remove the Facebook page temporarily as the intended use has gotten out of hand and does not bode well for the city.

A call for tar and feathering, public flogging, or running these folks out of town on a rail? Settle down!

I don't believe anything was done intentionally so calling for people to resign is going a little overboard. People make mistakes and as long these were honest unintentional mistakes than we need to forgive it and move on. From what I have read in the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer the punishment handed out was not fitting for the crime. Little League International could have allowed the kids to take part and suspend PTCLL from post season play next season. At least then these kids which earned their right to represent the state of Georgia would have been allowed to continue on.

Little League International needs to really sit down and think about what are serious infractions and deserve disqualification and what don't. What happened here does not appear to have been serious enough to punish these children.

- Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Obama!

Good evening I hope you are well.

Like you I am a coach and former BOD member of PTCLL. I grieve for the boys, coaches and families. I am not sure I entirely understand all that has happened and I agree we should really understand that how paperwork regarding the regular season causes a team to be stripped of a title they were approved to play for. I am sure there are some twists and turns.

However, what I do know. Linda North is a good person and as the district administrator she can be a pain for those who just want to play baseball. Is it possible that she made a mistake yes, is it true that she probably bears more pain for the boys than most, likely yes.

I have been competing against Brandon Taylor since Bray and Jackson were 4. His players love him and the amount of time he has invested in PTC as President of PTCLL is enormous. Did he make a mistake I do not know but I know it would be an honest mistake. I can tell you over 500 PTC kids had a great baseball season thanks to Brandon and his board. Their work is underappreciated.

From my three years on the PTCLL board I can tell you it is a big commitment on top of God, family, work and coaching a team. There always seem to be 10 people involved really making the wheels turn. The names may change but it is usually no more than 10. Get involved go to PTCLL.com to volunteer your time. Maybe by having more hands less will get dropped.

But let me share with you, that when I came to the board I saw everything my predecessor did wrong, when I left, I am sure I was second guessed. But these are all good people who mean well but make mistakes. We can learn form mistakes, ask forgiveness but then it is the next at bat.

As far as the facebook there has been some emotional statements that are part of the grieving process. I appreciate these statements there where there are 414 eyes instead of a larger forum. Again, I know many of those people and to a person they are salt of the earth well meaning people.

I don't know about the rest. I know the LL model protects the more rec kids and when done right levels the playing field for many. Personally my son plays 9/10 minors and plays part time on a 10U USAAA team. That works for us.

One last thing, if you are going to call volunteers out and ask for their resignations, please show respect to them and do so in your real name.

Take care

n

Delete

PTC Observer's picture

All these comments are interesting Mr. Sullivan but there is one inescapable fact, there is not one adult person involved with this team that did not want to see them succeed. There's not one member of this boys' team that wanted to do anything other than participate and win. Mistakes happen, we are disappointed but what is the lesson we are teaching our children now? Today?

Life is going to be full of disappointments for a variety of reasons, not the least among these will be human error.

It reminded me of this quote by a very wise pastor.

?__The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, the education, the money, than circumstances, than failure, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company... a church... a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice everyday regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past... we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude. I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. And so it is with you... we are in charge of our Attitudes.?_?

?__ Charles R. Swindoll

Let's make sure that we teach our children a lesson about attitude through this sad error, life is not perfect and never will be. Perfection is an unattainable goal for us.

by far. Thank you. Life is full of good intentions gone bad. For whatever the reasons, the season is over for this team. Congratulations for getting as far as you did and hold your head up high.

The fact that the president of this league is an attorney can make this become more than it is. I say to all these young men, play the game as it is. A game. It....is.....a.....game. Yes, you want to win, as do your parents. Ask your parents to work with the officials so that any future team does not experience what you have experienced. Then, get on with your life. You have played hard, you have had a great time, made good friends, competed as a good sportsman would and no one can take that away from you. Best of luck to all of you.

I agree with your post absolutely and it was where I was going.

We teach the kids the umpire makes the call and it is what it is. All they can do is their best. Sometimes the call does not go your way and in this case it didn't. This doesn't mean the coaches and kids did not win those games or do their best. They should cherish those memories. The good news is no one died, everyone is going to eat and has a place to rest their heads.

If they can learn to forgive whoever has erred with a honest heart, they have won a bigger game than any on ESPN and will go farther in life because of it .

"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom" - Patton

I look forward to see how high PTCLL can go from here.

Take Care

n

Excellent post! Let's hope the lesson is learned and the healing begins.

Mr. Taylor, the board, and coaches all give a lot of themselves to the league. The board is also a year round responsibility. Under his leadership he has PTC little league back on track after years of being run by a group that ran the Little League and used it as a feeder for their travel teams.

I don't think anyone purposefully meant this to happen to gain an edge and I can see how these volunteers with jobs, kids, homeownership, can make a mistake especially with a rule book so big and so many divisions. We can all agree its a big emotional letdown for the boys who worked so hard and played so well and for their parents who only want the best for their kids and to shield them from hurt.

I do think that the league is feeding on the emotions right now and I hope Brandon steps up and simply acknowledges the mistake and develop a plan of checks and balances so that this doesn't happen again. There is no use at this point for the league to continue to fight this ruling or to go on tv. Cooler heads must prevail. It would also be a great time to advertise the need for additional volunteers. There are a lot of people willing to get involved and others who simply need a little arm twisting.

This would be a perfect time for everyone to read or reread the poem "If" by Rudyard Kipling. Its quite apropo.

Your 4th paragraph though bothers me. I don't think you meant to say you competed against Brandon, but your kids competed against one another. I've seen too many coaches though think that they are the ones competing. We're not. Our jobs as youth coaches, is to teach the fundamentals and to also teach the kids how to compete against one another. I have never lost sleep about a win or a loss. I have lost sleep when I recognize that I failed to properly prepare the kids to compete.

We need to end the drama and move into fall ball.

Time for Fall Ball. PTCLL will learn and do better. Jackson is playing football so we will get back in Spring, but again I will probably looking for a part time USAAA adder to let Jackson get exposure to different players, coaches and situations. But that is what HE wants. End of the day it is HIS hobby that I put my time in to support.

And you are right. Our teams competed, but the kids all would get in on the rivalry of it all and it would result in some great baseball as so could see the extra effort to beat the dreaded Gators, Reds or Redsox. There are rumors of an ice cream party for a win over my Ranger team. (Don't tell Little League ;o ) It was all in good fun but got the kiddos to focus and when they are 7... whatever works as long as the KIDS have fun. Brandon does a really good job. My son played for him this All Star season and had a good experience.

If the people were not called out by name I probably wouldn't have bothered as I have enough wind mills to tilt at. Maybe the Bobfather can develop a vision for PTCLL, although you cannot play baseball in an arts center.

I thought this kind of drama was reserved for cheerleading.

NUK_1's picture

These kids obviously had nothing to do with any errors made administratively (by adults) and have to suffer instead from it. A shame.

PTCLT's picture

A team who affiliated themselves with my local LL (Peachtree City GA) recently won the state championship and were scheduled to play in the Southeast Region Tournament starting this past weekend, however only a few days before the start of play, a committee from Williamsport suddenly and mysteriously disqualified the team, stripped them of their title and awarded the runner-up the birth.

See the facebook page here: https://www.facebook...itylittleleague

And the most detailed press report here: http://www.ledger-en...sp=/99/164/165/

It seems on the outside (how the league wants it) that they were ousted because of obscure technicalities, but I work in this league, and I saw this team in person.

First off, this was Not a league team, or collection of league rec players in any possible way. This was a Very good Travel team(s) collaboration trying to crash the Big Dance. The "league" game I called for them this year was the most bizarre baseball game I have ever seen. It was a joke.

The coaches of this team flat out told me that they were a collection of USSSA travel kids trying to make it to the stage of the LLWS. They, "Basically just have to play a few 'league' games to qualify". I felt like the league team was just a punching bag. This travel team used their own pitcher and catcher while on offense because, "We want some actual competitive practice" as well as the poor rec catcher could not handle the pitching. It was the least balanced game I ever seen, and from experience with this league, I know it is hilarious that they tried to pass themselves off as the level of play you can expect in Peachtree City, my absolute least favorite place to call a ball game because it will be Bad and Boring.

This is not the way the tournament is supposed to work.

Well obviously they were caught. I posted my experience of the "league" game on the facebook page and it was deleted. They are trying to pass this off as technicalities, but I know the true deeper problems.

Rat behavior is Rat behavior, and I am ashamed this league tried to help the cheaters pull this off.

My journalism piece for the year.

You gotta lot of nerve. :)

You could have done that in one sentence.

PTCLT's picture

You have taken this umpires statement out of context.

When this team played a regular rec team it WAS bad and boring, even for an umpire.

His sympathetic statement of ?__This is not the way the tournament is supposed to work.?_? Indicates he knows the difference and does not like it. (good umpire, good person!).

No one likes a blow out and it was obviously unfair for the rec team to play this much better team. When a rec team plays a tournament team NO ONE WINS!

This umpire sees all types of teams and knows the difference between rec and travel teams.

His point is this team was not a ?__normal?_? rec team from PTC.

All umpires like a close game. Sounds like this was far from it.

I agree the competition needs to be even to make it half way competitive in LL.

PTCLT's picture

It is VERY difficult to have a program that meets both travel ball goals and Rec ball goals in the same league.

If Brandon Taylor, a very good attorney, and multiple other people ?__up the line?_? missed this there must be a reason. It is because of the complicated rules LL imposes on local parks.

After this ?__Mess?_? more new rules will be in next year?__s LL manual.

This is the reason more and more parks are leaving little league.

I am not an advocate of any association BUT there is a reason why most parks on the Southside of Atlanta , and many others have left LL.

There is a desire for some in a league to ?__take baseball to the next level?_? and programs like USSSA and some others allow the local league to tailor their program to the needs and wishes.

Programs like this are not perfect and require lots more management to balance the needs of all participants BUT are not as draconian in their requirements that are handcuffing more and more leagues.

LL is the grand stage in the US because of the heritage and the TV coverage of the paths to Williamsport.

The league officials here in PTC, current or replacements need to really evaluate their own program do the right things for ALL involved.

BE warned most parks that switch to a new sanctioning body BUT retain the same leadership struggle to really come clean and develop a GOOD program for years. New leaders are needed.

Einstein said ?__You cannot get yourself out of trouble with the same type of thinking that got you in trouble in the first place?_?

Senoia LL has found this out.

If your only goal is to get a team to the Grand stage in Williamsport you have failed the other 90% of the families that want to just play ball.

Little League IS NOT set up for this regardless of what they say.

It gets more and more restrictive every year and because of this we have some young men and families devastated when they should be STILL PLAYING BALL!

I agree about the kids and playing ball, that is what is important...helps keep the kids out of trouble, etc...lots of good in rec league, in my humble opinion.

I coached rec league basketball and soccer for over 10 years and enjoyed every minute of it.

PTCLT's picture

You are correct.

Travel teams are ?__Rigged" to WIN, period!

Everyone knows this going in, OR should.

There are no requirements for playing time and the best play if run properly.

They concentrate on tournaments and lots more games at longer distances from home.

These teams also focus on exposure to HS and college coaches.

They require MUCH more commitment from all involved and most play almost year round.

REC teams are ?__rigged?_? to be as even as possible and play and have fun mostly inside their own park OR short distances from it with little expectations of post season play and exposure to HS and college coaches. There are requirements for minimum playing time and ALL play if run properly.

BTW-almost impossible to do both in a Little League program.

In my opinion this is usually what happens when adults do not have the kids best interest at heart. It is all about the adults trying to make a name for themselves. Shameful.

naturegrl

were the kids who played in Little League 100% of the games, but where not included in the All Star team that won States. When you fill the team with "Ringers" what do you expect? It's karma.

My son made it to the state tournament in the 9-10 age group several years ago. After that fiasco, we moved on to play competitive baseball in Fayetteville. We had enough of the Little League system.

"We held a draft for the Majors division, as required by Little League rules, and because there were only enough players for two teams in this division, both a National and American League team were created. At the conclusion of the draft, the National League team was comprised of twelve 12-year-olds and two 11-year-olds. The American League team was predominately 11-year-olds. Both teams were required to play at least 12 games during the Spring season and they did so."

My guess is the predominately 11 year old team had no 12 years old. Based on this and the the district 4 website it would seem that PTC had one team that was 12/11 ALL-Star (PTC National League) team playing as rec and one 11/10 (PTC American League) Team All-star team playing as a rec team.

If PTC was required to split into two leagues they were effectively combining the two leagues into one team. Also, this has been attempted somewhere else see first link.

http://www.turnto23.com/sports/local-sports/rosedale-little-league-all-s...

http://www.nwgabaseball.org/snitz/topic.asp?whichpage=2.68&TOPIC_ID=3819...

http://www.ga4llb.org/standings.php?season=8&team=&leagueid=1

I'm glad they took down the facebook posts, but I do wonder why they removed the standings from the website. Either way, something was not done right when you have one team in the league with mostly 12 year olds and the other with 11's. They stacked the deck for some reason.

If one looks on the travel baseball website and compares with the LL website anyone can see there is some type of marriage of convenience. I think the city needs to look into a clean separation/divorce between the two.

Little League is a great organization, but in my opinion is past its prime. I would drop LL and move to the USSSA and form teams for both Recreation and Travel Tournament play. Many cities have already moved in this direction, including Fayette County whose director is/was once involved in PTC baseball. Joining Fayette County may also be an option and provide additional opportunities for the kids.

The city's recreation dept might want to consider reviewing the baseball house all together and require anyone who wants to volunteer with the board interview and then follow a set of leadership guidelines that represent the city's values and goals.

PTCLT's picture

But first:

1. Clean house inside PTCLL (new leaders will emerge in #2 below) and let the city deal with any that have committed fraud and/or provided poor leadership.

2. Hold 1-2 town hall meetings

3. Hold elections

4. Meet with other leagues in this area on transitioning to a new organization

5. Take a leadership role in a new Southside baseball interleague organization with help from USSSA or AABC or whoever you affiliate with.

6. Set 3 year goals

One more thing for both PTC and Senoia:

Get out of the Softball business!

One of the premier softball associations on the southside has always been and still is PTCGSA.

Mike Latham and his crew run a great program, both rec and travel ball, for girls and both PTC and Senoia have struggled for years making softball work inside a baseball program.

If girls want to play baseball GREAT!

Lots of fun at Meade fields where girls RULE all by themselves!

PTC and Senoia need to focus on baseball!

No one ever discusses it, but its becoming a serious health problem (arms) when the players play both Little League and Travel baseball, especially with the pitchers and catchers.

The Little League has strict rules regarding how many pitches one can throw and how many days rest in between appearances.

The USSSA doesn't count pitches but has rules about innings pitched.

However, I am not aware of any rules that link the two leagues. A kid can therefore pitch during the weekend travel tournaments and turn around and pitch in a little league games with little or no rest.

I have seen kids pitch all weekend, then pitch more in little league and only follow the rules of the league in which they are playing in that day. It baffles my mind that parents even allow this.

This is going to kill arms by the time the kids reach the 8th grade.

Some professional pitching coaches say it is an issue with kids as they get older. Also they are throwing curves/sliders way too early in some cases..it is wearing out the kids arms early.

There has been a plethora of younger pro pitchers having issues in the last 5-10 years..it did not used to go on..but the kids didn't play baseball almost year round back in the day.

End of the day we need to parent and look out for not only junior's playing time and prestiege BUT simply putwe need to look out for our kid's health as no one else will.

Jackson is 10. He got nasty with pitching this year with a 4 seam fastball and a change up. Had a coach start talking up the curve ball I said no. Saw it in multiple tournament games I still said no. Hi arm is too small and too young.

I am one of the LL coaches but I keep track of how many pitches are thrown in games and practices and inform the coaches when he is avail between the two. I even keep practice throwing minutes. He is my responsibility.

If we as parents take responsibility for our kids is school, sports and socially, things would be better.

take care

n

I worry about those kids whose parents who want to raise the next superstar and the coaches who aren't in it for the right reasons. I read a few of the websites this week with moms, dads and coaches commenting about the team that was disqualified. It seems to me that there are an awful lot of parents who want an instant successful child instead of someone who works hard and peaks later in life. Early success is good for a kids self esteem, but not if a kid will be harmed with arm trouble later on.

I sat and watched a game my friend was coaching a few years back. He had a 9 year old kid, great athlete, who he put on the mound.

The kid started throwing curve balls. The manager walked out to the mound and told his young stud to just throw fastballs and change-ups, just like he taught in practice. The kid didn't throw any more that inning. Between innings the kids dad pulled him aside and told him to throw the curve every other pitch. When my friend visited the mound after seeing what was going on the next inning, the kid told him what his dad told him to do and my friend simply changed pitchers.

Following the game, the manager and dad had a heated discussion. My friend told me that he welcomed the dad to help coach, but the dad was too busy. My friend explained his background in coaching and his philosophy about not throwing curves at such a young age and told the dad his son is welcome to pitch his way, but if he sees the dad directing the kid what to throw again, his pitching will stop.

I have been lucky. In all my years of coaching, I have never had to get into any heated discussions with parents. Probably because I learned early to be proactive and explain my methods before the first practice and ask anyone to call me or pull me aside if they had any questions.

Despite what my wife says, I'm not deaf. I hear parents in the crowd whine at games and question some coaches why their kids aren't the superstar they think they are. I see the coaches use pitchers too much because they are too lazy to develop more kids on the team that can throw strikes.

I'm not singling out PTC. These types of parents and coaches are everywhere and at every level shooting for the unicorn college scholarship. I wonder if parents really understand that a Division 1 baseball team is limited to 11.7 scholarship players per team. This means that the stars of the team share scholarship money and the others still pay their own way.

PTCLT's picture

Pitchers arms are the responsibiity of adults-NOT league rules.

PTCLT's picture

Based on recent revelations all involved on the PTCLL side should ?__let this sleeping dog lie?_?

Scrubbing the PTCLL Facebook page was a good move.

Let the healing begin with a Town hall meeting in 2-3 weeks.

The main problem is the fact that kids are aloud to play in two leagues. A lot of families can not afford to play travel ball. Little League was a program that was started for kids that wanted to play ball and didn't have money. That's why its an ALL volunteer organization....to keep the cost down. Its not right that people play two leagues and take the opportunity away from the kids that cant afford lessons 6 days a week. They play all the games and make all the practices and get bumped by someone that only plays 10 or 12 games on that team so they can go to the true world series. If you want your kids to go to the Little League World Series have them play Little League and not use it for some practice time......and yes I can talk the talk because I played and coached in Little League.

If the parents and the kids want to play in both leagues, I don't have a problem with it. I do have an issue with the LL catering to the travel teams in terms of scheduling practices and games around the travel teams schedule. If the travel kids can't make the LL practice or games, than the opportunities should be given to the players who are in attendance during practices and games.

The LL also purchased most of the equipment yet the travel teams can be seen each week using LL property (golf cart for instance). I would hope that the travel teams pay for field time ect.. because they dominate certain days each week and take practice time away from the LL who provides the majority of the upkeep. The city needs to check that each kid on the travel teams are PTC residents. If any of them are not, the city should charge more for the entire team to use the fields.

PTC needs to look at dropping LL and move to USSSA which has rec and travel opportunities for all kids. If not, then the city should make sure there is a clean split between the two organizations, because there appears to be conflict of interest with some folks working both sides of the fence for their own special interests.

It is true that a majority of the equipment and costs are paid by PTCLL, but I know for fact that PTB paid a part of the cost of the batting cages based on % of participants. Is the cost paid equal to use? no. But the second fact to remember is that the majority of the kids are PTC residents using a PTC park. I think a bigger and better question for Mayor Travel Ball is whether the tournament promotors should pay a fee to be placed in a "lock box" for BSC costs such as equip. The players are charged an out of town or out of county fee when they are rostered.

But I also need to state that when we talk about the volunteers who take care of the fields and do routine maintence, my perception is that the PTB volunteers but in more time and have done so for a long time, many of them being former PTCLL BOD.

Linda North had mandated people coulc not be on both boards, I do not know if that is still being honored as it has been a few years but to be honest, I think it would be better to coordinate between the two and offer the best public baseball product possible to PTC residents.

Hope this helps

n

You have to pardon my ignorance, but I thought the batting cages at the lower fields were donated and then dedicated to Mr. Kuebler for his many years of service.

There are good people on both the LL and travel teams that spend countess hours working on the fields. Just because you have a handful of folks that have been around for a while just means you notice them more.

It would be interesting to compare how much money a LL's fees go towards the fields vs Travel. Since the travel kids spend more time year round on the fields, I would think their costs would be much higher. There are also private baseball academy teams that use the field. Do you know if those teams pay the city extra for the useage?

Regarding the LL board. If there are members on the board whose children also play on the travel teams, then there is a conflict of interest.

The city should have gone to USSSA years ago, but I think no one wanted to be the one to bring this up to Mrs. North.

The cages were donated by PTCLL, PTB and Big League which I thought was a good example of those who use the asset giving something back. The lights were donated later by I think Eaton.

As far as USAAA for Rec. I have no strong preference except for two things to consider

1. The dads and "real baseball". One thing that I like about the Little League model is that it builds up the amount of things the kids have to worry about like leading or stealing. Especially at the young ages things like this make it better for all the kids to compete instead of discouraging some at younger ages. I have actually had a dad get into my face for not running up the score on a team. Little League has a 5 run rule, USAA has no such rule.

2. Going back to some our discussions about visioning. We have REC USAA at Kiwanas Park in Fayetteville, Brooks, Tyrone, and Senoia. PTC is the only park with the Little League product in the area. Maybe that is a plus instead of being a clone of East Cobb. But to make it viable Little League needs to expand the boundaries.

But to summarize I will quote a man smarter than me, the baseball is always greener in another park.

Take Care

n

It would be a good thing to evaluate. Let's just bypass the BobFather. We have pretty good facilities within the county. I know what I would do if provided the opportunity to help join hands with all of the leagues throughout the county.

I think people would have changed affiliations years ago had Mrs. North not been so heavily invested throughout the years.

PTCLT's picture

The headline in the Citizen and the report states that there was a " paperwork error.

Time to come clean.

The following if from a person that hase been around LL league for years.

It is just one of many opinion from all over the US on what really happened.

People inside PTCLL need to be held accountable for this.

" I think it was the fake draft, where all the 11's ended up on one team, and the 12's on the other. The "prez" tried to explain that that was just how the proper draft went down, and both manager had the choice of any player. And, they were new, and didn't know about the max number 12 years olds per team. Him just spouting that nonsense made the ax so easy to drop on these idiots. They could have very easily, with a little homework, gone about this the proper way.

Plenty of LL All Star teams are comprised of nearly intact travel teams. This is what usually happens: A properly selected 9-10 team does fairly well in post season, and the families all get along. Someone suggests to keep the team intact, and play some travel tournaments in the summer. The next season comes along, and nearly all the same players end up on the 10-11 team. Not through any sort of conspiracy, but by the very nature of these kids being, and continuing to be good. When they're 12, the same thing happens. Hence, the core group of these kids have been playing travel ball together for 2-3 years. It's not some sort of grand scheme, but just what naturally happens in many leagues

Now, if a team is not properly selected, or kids from out of the boundaries are snuck in, etc., is when WP drops the hammer. So, if you decide to form your own league with two teams, don't allow other players in, have a sham draft, and then lie about, guess what's going to happen?"

Hi again PTCLT:

I probably know as much what really happened as you do and we all have our opinions and other body parts. But to offer to the conversation some observations.

First there were exactly two teams so about 24 - 26 kids. There was a side by side 50-70 Intermediate league also. Maybe both managers recruited and brought in their travel kids? so each took their own or most of it?

When I managed a 6-8 Coach toss team we had a draft. While each manager had a different approach one drafted an almost entire 6 YO team. Did not seem like a good idea but I asked why? He said that he wanted his son to grow up with his friends on his team so that is what he drafted. They had a good time but they played teams with a disproportionately higher number of 7-8.

But in 8 YO Kid Pitch Fall Ball, we had a new manager and there were 4 of us. the 3 experienced PTCLL managers drafted kids we knew and knew about. The other manager kept drafting kids we never heard of. We wound up playing against an almost intact ABA team that had experienced pitching and good ball players. Nothing hokey or under the table just volunteers that made choices that made sense to them. I have never been so proud of a 3-1 loss.

My point is this. There are many stories and theroies that may or not be true. But let's remeber that there have been a lot of honest people who have produced a lot of good ball players through PTCLL.

Take Care,

Neil

PTCLT's picture

Neal wrote: "But let's remeber that there have been a lot of honest people who have produced a lot of good ball players through PTCLL.

"Have" and "ball players" are the keywords in your statement.

This WAS true BUT does not seem this way now.

Lessions in athletics for young people are not just taught on the ball field.

Adults should lead by example.

Looks like some did not do a very good job of that.

Do the right thing PTCLL board, step aside.

First its Neil I for Irish

But to say that the current league volunteer coaches and players are not still developing some excellent ball players is insulting and shows that maybe you don't spend any time around PTCLL. You should check with the voices you hear they can tell you there are good things going on at BSC maybe you should check it out.

Take Care

n

PTCLT's picture

Neil

I am at the park all of the time. Probably more than most people on the board.

There is NO doubt great things are happening at BSC.

It?__s all about good responsible leadership, of lack of it.

The question on the table is: was this an honest mistake, neglect of duties or just plain cheating?

I believe Mike King should head up this investigation.

Either way a great group of boys and families will carry this burden for some time as it seems they could have been in Williamsport next week.

The current Little League model MAY fit some smaller programs BUT not the mix of athletes that play baseball in Peachtree City.

New leadership will be needed to bring any new program to life and the current board is Little League through and through.

This mind-set still haunts/hurts the Senoia program as they had a disastrous spring season.

Brooks, Fayetteville and Newnan did fine.

It will be nearly impossible for the current leaders on the board of PTCLL to adapt to a new program and more people than you know have lost confidence in their ability to lead.

Linda North and most on the PTCLL board should resign NOW. This happened on their watch. PERIOD!

What constitutes a disastrous spring season?

How does little league not fit the mix of athletes that are PTC?

Look at the Atlanta Braves roster. The shortest player is 5'11" This is taller than the average male who is 5'10". From that fact it is obvious that one of the prerequisites for baseball is power since height is largely correlated with power. Keep in mind the 5'11" guys are mid-infielders with the exception of Kimbrel but even they are taller than average. Is USSSA going to make the kids taller and stronger? The characteristic that most scouts look for MLB is athleticism which includes power and speed. Also, the demise of rec ball and the growth of travel ball has coincided with the growth in Tommy John surgery.

I have wonder what is your objective and what is motivating you to push for USSSA vs Little League. I don't see where you have tied your dislike for the board or Little League in with the interest of the kids.

http://probaseballinsider.com/advice-from-an-orioles-scout/

PTCLT's picture

Senoia had disastrous spring season because of the previous board left them with NO FUNDS, the sitting president had be removed in the middle of the season by the NEW board AND operated the rest of the season with NO president. They are still operating under a LL charter BUT running a USSSA program, they waited until a few weeks before season to secure umpires and THEN lots of games had no OR late umpires. GUESS WHAT HAPPENED?

My statement of ?__The current Little League model MAY fit some smaller programs BUT not the mix of athletes that play baseball in Peachtree City.?_? This statement has nothing to do with size or athleticism of the kids playing BUT to the aspirations of the players and families on what their goals are in playing baseball. Generally Rec OR Travel ball. Current LL model does not support this.

Your statement of ?__I have wonder what is your objective and what is motivating you to push for USSSA vs Little League. I don't see where you have tied your dislike for the board or Little League in with the interest of the kids.?_?

I have made it clear the little league model will not work in the size of program of PTC.

I am not recommending USSSA, and some of their tournament directors are dodgy BUT the State office for USSSA is here in PTC and the people running this association in Georgia are good baseball people that are here to help leagues VS dictate that they use a ?__one size fits all leagues in the USA?_? model VS ?__do what is best for your own park?_?

Ultimately changes will have to be made by the parents of the players on the community BUT now that this T^#rd is in the punch bowl AND Linda North smells like the punch it may be time to change.

Wonder why ALL of the leagues in the surrounding areas have left LL to go to USSSA?

Am I recommending USSSA, maybe BUT the parents should invite them to one of the town hall meetings I have advocated.

One more thing:

Your statement of" I don't see where you have tied your dislike for the board or Little League in with the interest of the kids."

I don?__t dislike them; I have lost confidence in their ability to run the baseball program in PTC.

If you want to find some dislike go talk to the players and parents of the team that SHOULD be in Williamsport tomorrow.

and pardon my interruption here, but is the person in the link below affiliated with this USSSA organization you all are talking about?

http://archive.thecitizen.com/node/32064.html

No other comment, just curious. And RIP, John.

Yes, that cat is still involved in youth sports. Just hope his position only involves operations and not finance. I didn't know he was still around.

While I think PTC and FC has some good people, as a community, it may be a good time to reevaluate all athletic leadership positions, open it up, not just the cliques, require interviews and a code of ethics and select people that are leaders that represent the best of the community.

Sort of a sports vision. Since the best program around is soccer, Dan might be the best choice to lead this charge.

If the President of USSSA is the same person in MoeLarryCurly's link, how can you seriously criticize the current board while pushing for USSSA.

How did a "little league mind set" contribute to the president being removed and not securing umpires until a few weeks before the season. Also, if they were under a LL charter and running a USSSA league does that really support your argument because where was USSSA to help them? The national director is right next door. Where was he? A poorly run league is a poorly run league regardless of the affiliation.

Also, your statement the "little league model will not work in the size of program of PTC" is suspect because Murphy Chandler and Warner Robbins are two fairly large programs that seem to be well run. There are numerous Little League programs as big or bigger than PTC.

"BUT to the aspirations of the players and families on what their goals are in playing baseball." Since the goals are not stated or evidence of what the goals are you have provided little to convince me that Little League or any other League for that matter would be unsatisfying to PTC.

"If you want to find some dislike go talk to the players and parents of the team that SHOULD be in Williamsport tomorrow." A) According to little league rules they effectively combined two All-Star teams into one so no they should not be in Williamsport. B) Should I really take the opinions of 12 players and their parents as a representative sample of the entire league.

c) Little League rules requires a vote to be a board member. How did these people get elected if they are so disliked?

First, I think the board should be embarrassed that they failed to comply with the rules but I also believe one should be careful of criticizing people who volunteer. Also, I think this is more of a lack of awareness of the rules and not conducting a draft in the spirit of the Little League concept. Whether you agree with that concept is another matter.

PTCLT's picture

Uvgxg-I will not defend Matt Trebuchon.

What he did was despicable and he should be in jail.

I am not happy he is president of USSSA Georgia and I have written letters to USSSA national about this.

You wrote: ?__If the President of USSSA is the same person in MoeLarryCurly's link, how can you seriously criticize the current board while pushing for USSSA?_?. HE is BUT it is easy to criticize PTCLL now. They provided poor leadership at least, maybe more.

But you still have a LL mindset.

If you are a LL park and you want to wipe your nose or scratch your butt you refer to the LL manual OR call Linda North for instructions and permission. USSSA is just the opposite. They have guidelines on what a rec teams is and what a travel team is BUT if you want to do something in your park that meets the needs and wishes of your program YOU CAN.

You asked ?__How did a "little league mind set" contribute to the president being removed and not securing umpires until a few weeks before the season? With a LL mind set you are always looking for someone else to make the decisions for you. President at the time was a LL type president. He was removed for other reasons.

You also asked ?__where was USSSA to help them??_? They did not ask AND umpires are getting harder and harder to find especially at the last minute.

You wrote ?__Little League rules requires a vote to be a board member. How did these people get elected if they are so disliked??_? How many people asked questions of the prospective board members and WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE PARENTS VOTED?

You also stated ?__A poorly run league is a poorly run league regardless of the affiliation?_?.

True. USSSA will not make you any better in the beginning BUT over time you will stand on your own two feet IF the proper leaders are put in place.

You wrote ?__I also believe one should be careful of criticizing people who volunteer".The real truth is most people get involved and get in office to influence ?__things?_? to benefit their own child or team. Most will say otherwise BUT I have been around youth sports leagues for 30 years and it is simply a fact.

I don?__t have a dog in this fight. I have grandchildren playing ball and their parents are LIVID right now with PTCLL BUT if I was still involved I would beat the drum to have some open and frank discussions with the city and current board of PCTLL.

This program is clearly at a crossroads and the parents NEED to get involved in the decision making process NOW.

Dup

Most volunteer to influence things to benefit their child.

Personally, I prefer volunteers that want to help build a program for all the kids. Especially at the younger ages.

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