The Obamacare debacle ...

Terry Garlock's picture

... has little to do with website rollout problems, never mind the hysteria that spread among TV talking heads. Sure, it’s easy to throw rocks at the flawed rollout, but it just isn’t what matters about Obamacare.

I’ll tell you what I think but I warn you this may not be an easy read.

New systems have had bumpy starts since before Democrats discovered entitlements, and we all know the hiccups and crashes of a new system. We also know websites, databases and complex systems can be fixed, or at worst can be scrapped and replaced.

So even though the Oct.1 Obamacare enrollment opening failed, and even though the new system clearly was not adequately tested, the marathon of criticism on Fox News is completely misplaced.

It is indeed interesting that Obama’s heretofore loyal mainstream media turned on him at long last on the rollout snags, joined by a wave of Democrats running for hotly contested seats in Congress who are publicly abandoning their Obamacare pom-poms.

Nevertheless, incompetence in the enrollment computer system pales in comparison to the real problems with Obamacare.

The current website controversy is mostly about appearances while more important substance lies ignored in a dark corner, overlooked. Go ahead and collect some heads as retribution for naive and unprofessional introduction of a major national system, and for spending truckloads of taxpayer money like a wastrel on a system that doesn’t work yet. But this aborted beginning is not at all central to the damage Obamacare is doing to America.

We all know Obamacare creates hundreds of new boards and commissions now in the process of creating volumes of new regulations to control every aspect of our health care lives.

We know the new law was crammed through by parliamentary maneuvers without a single Republican vote while half the country was adamantly opposed to it.

We know Obamacare covertly redistributes wealth from higher income to lower income individuals, and from the young to the old.

We know that government mandating every individual must purchase health insurance with their own money isn’t right, even if the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court twisted himself into an intellectual pretzel to declare the mandate’s penalty is constitutional, his reasoning that the payment is a tax and not a fee stretched like a dollar before payday.

We know Obamacare is the left’s strategic stepping stone to a single payer (government insurance) system.

Let me pause here to alarm my fellow conservatives by confessing that single payer might be a good fit in theory since insurance is the concept of spreading the small risk of catastrophic loss over large numbers of people, but the theory is trumped all to hell and back by our certain knowledge the federal government couldn’t lead a group of little old ladies through a pansy patch without serious consequences, and will surely screw up our healthcare to a fare-thee-well.

We don’t trust handing over one-sixth of the economy to our government whether the administration of the moment is Democrat or Republican, because we know government is an epic case study in human nature wherein every incremental dose of power seems to inflate an irrepressible urge to create more rules for other people to follow, overshadowing any notion that people should be left alone to control their own lives.

Chew on that thought long enough and you may see the irony since our country’s birth out of the love of liberty was induced by that very human weakness.

We know there are some good things in Obamacare, like doing away with pre-existing conditions, eliminating lifetime benefit caps, keeping children on our policy through age 26 and non-cancellation.

But it gets even better because the liberals in charge decided every policy must include coverage of prescription drugs like birth control pills, prenatal care, maternity, pediatric care including dental and vision, mental and behavioral care, and all 50 preventive and wellness screening procedures recommended by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force.

And, of course, rehab is included since addictions of every stripe are considered diseases now instead of the misbehavior we all once knew them to be.

All that is before you even get to coverage of routine doctor visits and treatment for serious illness.

Who wouldn’t love policies packed with so many health safety hatches, with the federal government requiring many of them be “free” to the policyholder? One of the selling points is that now low-income drug addicts, alcoholics and mentally ill will for the first time have access to the services they need at no cost.

But because we weren’t born yesterday, we know — even while Obama’s dubious promise our premium cost will come down rings fresh in our ears – that every one of these coverage bells and whistles come at a cost that will eventually appear in our premiums.

We also know the medical care system will become overloaded with the newly-insured, inspired by their brand-new entitlement to “free” services.

And of course our government’s quest to take care of us all has consequences. Already, millions of Americans are receiving notice of policy cancellations because their existing policies don’t meet the new Obamacare requirements.

If that describes you, now you must choose a new policy, never mind that you may be a middle-aged male with no desire to pay for prenatal and maternity coverage, never mind that you are a young woman whose religion prohibits contraceptives, never mind that you want to pay for your own routine care and save premium dollars by purchasing a policy that only covers serious illness.

Nope. That old policy and its premiums might fit you like a glove but the geniuses in Washington know far better what is good for you.

Until now we have been underwritten by insurance carriers based on our personal risk profile – individual rating. Now under Obamacare, policies will be sold based on community rating in which you only need to answer three questions: age, sex and whether you smoke. You decide whether you believe cheerleader claims that your premium cost will be lower.

President Obama’s sales pitch had, at its core, his frequently repeated promise that we can keep our insurance policy and keep our doctor under Obamacare, and we know that was never even remotely true.

We know government-rationed care will become part of this mess.

We know the heavy hand of government’s one-size-fits-all rules is a blunt instrument, and that our deepest worries are not whether an enrollment website is broken, but what will happen in five years when your aging mom needs open heart surgery.

Will the boards and commissions of Obamacare step in to prioritize those scarce resources, allocating them to younger patients whose lifespan holds more promise, a rational decision that has nothing whatever to do with the value of your mother to you?

But there are other elements of the debacle that are more subtle.

With the advent of Obamacare, countless doctors nationwide have been throwing in the towel, scheduling their retirement from the practice of medicine because they’ve had enough red tape already and don’t want to become a red mummy.

Finding a doctor will become more difficult as the noose tightens, and as the years pass we will feel the effects that countless brilliant young men and women have already decided against a career in medicine, deterred by the repulsive notion of excessive government control.

The damage is already done in hardening America’s cultural shift to an entitlement mentality. For those who never learned in school the beauty of capitalism and self-reliance, for those who never pushed past the adolescent belief that government should take care of us, their worst ideals are being vindicated while the ideals of independence and personal responsibility that gave birth to this country are becoming passe.

Serious problems in our health care system not only remain but are aggravated by Obamacare. Republicans in Congress would do well to conserve the energy they squander on repeal efforts with no chance, and instead develop an alternative plan to actually solve some of the very real health care system problems. They should try to overlook their loathing for Obamacare to incorporate some of its ideas worth keeping.

A big part of the problem is you and me. By that I mean human nature, especially now that we live in a world that abhors risk of any sort, and our modern instinct that any problem or crisis we suffer means someone else must pay.

So, instead of gladly paying for routine doctor visits, and thereby making rational choices among competing costs, we have grown accustomed to ignoring healthcare costs because we expect someone else to pay every time we need surgery or get a scratchy throat.

Maybe you understand that health insurance paying for every little thing is actually a misapplication of insurance, which is the concept of spreading the risk of calamity over large numbers of people, each of whom pays a small regular sum into the kitty.

The better use of health insurance is to let you pay for your own routine doctor visits, while insurance covers your family against the financial catastrophe of a major illness.

Unless you are a socialist, of course, in which case your thought process eventually leads you to Obamacare and our mommy-state using other people’s money to pay for your smallest medical need, driving costs further into the stratosphere and allocating your mom’s open heart surgery to a younger person.

Obamacare does nothing whatever to encourage people to be responsible for their own routine doctor visits, or to pay careful attention to costs, which should be part of a rational healthcare system that protects against significant, unaffordable costs.

In fact, one advertised benefit is “free” preventive care, as if any covered service could possibly be free. The naive belief that someone else should pay for every medical service we seek, however large or small, is perpetuated and validated by Obamacare.

So long as patients ignore costs because they know “someone else pays,” some doctors will order unnecessary tests to cover their hiney and all medical providers are able to conceal their absurdly complex array of prices for services in which an aspirin tablet might billed from $2 to $50, depending on whether you are an insurance company with a specially negotiated deal.

As just one small example, when my daughter was suddenly seriously ill her summer before first grade while we were visiting grandma in Pensacola, the hospital bill was over $65,000 for her 10 days of care, reduced to just over $17,000 by the agreement with my insurance carrier, and my out-of-pocket cost was nearly nothing so what did I care what a second MRI cost when my kid is sick? Besides, if I had asked how much it cost the hospital would have taken hours at best to figure out the answer.

Hospitals play the inflated-billing game in an attempt to recover their losses on patients who don’t pay at all. This hidden-cost insanity will continue until patients have incentive to ask how much things cost and make decisions accordingly.

Obamacare makes it worse.

Those are some of the real problems with Obamacare, the things that matter far more than a broken enrollment website. That can be fixed, but the real damage to America caused by Obamacare just might be unfixable.

Think of it this way. When they get the enrollment flaws all smoothed out, America will be able to accelerate down the Obamacare highway, faster and faster, pell-mell toward perdition.

[Terry Garlock lives in Peachtree City and writes columns occasionally for The Citizen. He has authored a book, “Strength & Honor: America’s Best in Vietnam.” His email is terry@garlock1.com.]

Fred Garvin
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White guy wins after leading voters to believe he’s black

Hilarious. The racists thought they were voting for a black dude.....

White guy wins after leading voters to believe he’s black

Austin has said he plans to ask for a recount. But in an era of electronic voting, political analysts said Wilson's victory will probably hold and send him into office for a six-year term.

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Black white guy in Houston

That's the funniest thing I have seen all month. Maybe we can find someone to do that when we get around to voting in our new NAACP district. Wouldn't that be a hoot?

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Republicans Also Culpable for Obamacare

As Republicans wring their hands cursing the ACA “Obamanation,” perhaps an historical context might illuminate their own culpability for the disaster. Way back in 1992, Bill Clinton campaigned on a popular plank of health care reform. Clinton’s efforts, headed by his wife, were rebuffed by a Democratic-controlled Senate and House with universal Republican opposition, even though it polled around 70% in favor when the initiative began.

From 1992 to 2012, Republicans have controlled the U.S. Congress 14 years, the Senate 10 years, and the Presidency 8 years. One might have expected two decades of GOP leaders to pursue market-based and taxed-favored solutions to health care reform such as granting individuals the same tax credits for health insurance purchases as are granted to businesses, allowing insurance sales over state lines, etc. One would be sadly mistaken. The only healthcare legislation the Party of Lincoln championed was an expansion of government-paid benefits (Medicare, Part D) to the wealthiest cohort in America (Retirees) with no funding scheme whatsoever to support the expansion. This passed compliments of that liberal stalwart, George W. Bush, with the full approval of both Republican-controlled legislative bodies.

Barack Obama, a political novice, seized on this neglected problem that affects so many Americans and rode its popularity into the White House in 2008, spreading his coattails wide enough to elect a Democratic-controlled House and Senate. These grateful legislators passed his healthcare reform without even reading the whole bill.

The point – Over two decades, conservatives squandered countless opportunities to address healthcare costs and accessibility problems with sound fiscal solutions. The public would have loved them. Instead, they not only did no good, they actually made it worse by granting an unfunded expansion of Medicare. So while conservatives rejoice in Obamacare’s tribulations, perhaps a few thoughtful ones will recognize their own culpability for tragic inaction.

"The greatest failure of all is failure to act when action is needed." – Coach John Wooden

(Or for the Evangelicals on this site - James 4:17)

PTC Observer
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STF - Couldn't

have said it better, if I were campaigning against the politicians called conservatives.

However, I'm not, I am campaigning against all politicians that use the power of government to control our lives and rob us.

So, in the case, no action by government is preferred over a self-severing action carried out under the banner of government "helping" us. They're only helping themselves to our hard earned money, using crony capitalism to line their pockets.

Examples? Just look at the Clintons. Never held a job unless you count Mrs. Clinton's and that was to serve her husband's political ambitions. Never held a job but political, serving the people, with a government paid job, right? LOL

wheeljc
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A Shallow Apology on November 7!

Obama was forced into the hollow apology by his own party. They kicked his butt and took him to the wood shed on November 6 over the entire OBAMACARE debacle -- including his persistent lies!

An apology is only valid if it is followed up by positive action. WHAT WILL IT BE?

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/tim-brown/252-examples-of-obamas-lying-lawb...

See a pattern here?

And for those who think the democrats are doing this to be generous to the poor, think again. Dr. Ben Carson has said it best: 'ENSLAVEMENT'! And just think, done by the first Black president!

Davids mom
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LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL

Thomas Jefferson and the Founding Fathers lied to the American people - but we're a resilient lot - and we can move on.

G35 Dude
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DM-I'm curious
Quote:

Thomas Jefferson and the Founding Fathers lied to the American people - but we're a resilient lot - and we can move on.

What promises to the people did Jefferson lie about? Just curious.

mudcat
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Jefferson lied about slaves and women not voting

I think he promised the country that only men would vote to send their representatives to Congress and even though slaves could not vote, they were counted as 3/5 of a white man for purposes of counting the population in the Congressional Districts. Of course he didn't know it was a lie at the time and he was long dead when the people who changed things (Lincoln, Wilson) broke his promise. I see how DM and others could see that as a lie.

Not as bold a lie as Obama's on insurance plans, but a lie nonetheless.

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mudcat

Well I guess I don't really see that as a lie myself. To me a real lie is when I know I'm lying when I say it.

PTC Observer
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DM - Their

Their ideas did not lie or die.

Besides, you can't dismiss a character flaw with past lies, you can only recognize that some people justify the means when their "vision" is better than yours. This is what has lead to all sorts of murder, theft and destruction. Turn a blind eye to this at your own peril.....The Big Lie. It's all about power and coercion by the State.

We are losing something very precious...... an individual's freedom to choose.

Davids mom
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PTCO

The 'idea' is affordable healthcare. What a shame that elected adults could not work together to work toward the goal. It is now the law of the land - but like 'integration' some still want to make it a political football for the 'power' they feel that obstruction gives them. There are problems that those we sent to Congress could have worked out if they had worked together to get the citizens of this country affordable healthcare. If the Republicans saw these problems after 'reading' the bill - please give us the solutions to fix it! Is there an Independent or Libertarian that can help us ? The effort to make Obsma look bad - is not helping the American people! (And they are the ones who vote in national elections - the new technology has made texting cheaper than TV ads). Unfortunately, not much will change in 2014. - but nationally, the Republican Party will have a lot of fence mending to do to get other than the white male vote in this country. Obamacare is not the only issue for 2016.. Tax Reform, Immigration, National and personal security, education - all issues of concern to all citizens. Ideas for growth are needed - growth for the current demographics of our country. You know PTCO, as one who has experienced the inability to 'choose', I intend to never loose my freedom to choose. I just don't think your expressed strategies are realistic enough for me to keep what I've gained.

PTC Observer
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DM - It's

the only way to keep what you've gained. Uncontrolled Statism is not the answer DM, no matter how you want to sugar coat it. One day, your children will not understand what individual freedom is, because it will be lost to the State. It will do the choosing for them, just like O'care, the state knows what's best for you.

BTW, the only one making Mr. Obama look bad is Mr. Obama.

Davids mom
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PTCO - an afterthought. LOL
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BTW, the only one making Mr. Obama look bad is Mr. Obama.

Oh, I don't know. Some think that the Tea Party, and some Republicans have tried very hard to 'make this President look bad'.

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Really? DM

They may have tried but Mr. Obama has made it very easy for them by his own actions and admissions. Now you don't really believe that Mr. Obama "misspoke" do you? He knew exactly what he was doing and why. It was essential to getting his signature law passed. The man is dishonest, but he's not stupid.

The ends justify the means in his world, a superior world based on the progressive vision.

Davids mom
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PTCO - It?

Just what is this 'it' that will assure that what I've gained as an individual American will not be ' taken away'?

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It - DM

"It" is individual freedom, DM.......under our Constitution.... that protects your Rights from government power to steal private property by the force of unjust laws.

A majority of voters DM, is the same majority that stole your rights during segregation, it is the same majority that will steal your property. It's a pretty simple concept, the majority is not "right" simply because they are the majority. The Nazis had the majority DM. The Southern Democrats had the majority. The Soviets, well, it's like Stalin said, "it's not who votes that counts, it who counts the vote that counts". That was "pure" progressiveness DM, the outgrowth of pure state power over the masses.

Davids mom
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PTCO

It was when the majority of Americans saw the sickness that existed due to legal segregation that those policies began to change. It was when the voting power was in the hands of a few, that my freedom was limited. How many people had the right to vote under Hitler, Stalin, etc.?

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DM - I am

Surprised you don't know, all people under both socialist systems were forced to vote. Except Jews of course. You know just like Cuba, people are forced to vote, for the candidate of their choice, that belong to the same party. You know just like the Chinese, you must vote, but you have to belong to the party.

Segregation was defeated by the Constitution and its enforcement by Federal Authority, which was and is consistent with the social contract to protect life, liberty and property. Sates, just like the Federal government, have no right to deprive citizens of these Rights.

Davids mom
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PTCO -

Hitler - thanks for reminding me. I tend to identify more with the plight of the Jews - and really didn't realize that Germans were forced to vote. I have been in Cuba - and shouldn't have forgotten their cohersive method of 'voting'.

Quote:

Segregation was defeated by the Constitution and its enforcement by Federal Authority, which was and is consistent with the social contract to protect life, liberty and property. Sates, just like the Federal government, have no right to deprive citizens of these Rights.

I find this statement an interesting interpretation of 'history'. The Constitution and state governments, supported by the Federal Government, enforced segregation through the 1960's in this country. Our military was 'segregated' until the Truman Administration. The implementation of the words of the Constitution was brought to fruition after the Civil Rights movement. The 700,000 'blacks' who were residents of this country before the American Revolution were not considered as 'equal' under the Constitution that was adopted in the 1770's. The words of the 'social contract' did not become a reality for all Americans until the 1960's. And those whose gender preferences are different are just now becoming 'equal'. I'm sure you're aware of this. We are much closer to living up to the words of the 'social contract' today.

Davids mom
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PTCO

Well- the majority of the American citizens who voted do not agree with you. No one will give up their right to choose - but in this economy, will look for and appreciate affordable ways to exist in our country. It's interesting the ploys of fear that are expressed by some so that the 'fat' guys can keep their funds while the dwindling middle class brings home less of their money after a days work. In order for the 'middle class' not to protest, a 'monster' is introduced as the 'moocher' - the lazy underclass - when in reality , it is often the 'upper class' that is enjoying a resurgence of great wealth through lack of tax reform; un monitored practices in the financial world, etc., etc., etc. oh well -that's another discussion being held elsewhere.

Have a nice evening. It's hard for me to realize that 50 years ago this month, President Kennedy was assassinated. A sad, sad day in American history.

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Kennedy - DM

I agree, I remember it well.....a very sad day indeed.

I am not sure why you divert to class warfare, when it's the middle class that will pay for all of this. You do know that the "rich fat cats" will always have great health care no matter what, don't you?

I can't understand your assertion that "No one will give up their right to choose" of course they will. The Affordable Health Care Act is founded upon this principle. It's called forced wealth redistribution from a group of people that had self funded health insurance that they liked, to a group of people that couldn't afford health insurance. This was know not only by the President and Congress, it was required to make the redistribution "workable". Essentially, it means that the middle class will be taxed in favor of another class of people, all in the name of "social responsibility". Forced "social responsibility" is not the function of government and is contrary to the social contract that citizens have with their government.

Davids mom
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PTCO

It is obvious that our life experiences lead us to different conclusions. I do not agree with your conclusions, but enjoy your sharing of them. Persons who come to our country still find the freedom of opportunity here, with all the so-called faults, better than most other places on our planet. I have lived through government, state and federal, determining who humans marry, where they live, who they go to school with, where they shop and/or live, how they travel. I have seen great change in the past 60 years! I have 'faith' in the American goal of freedom and liberty for all under our present system of government - when that government is implemented as determined by the guidelines of our Constitution. To those studying civics today, they are fully aware that the 'making of a law' has been sadly misused by the Senate and The House. Students question how elected officials can sign a pledge to an individual while taking an oath to serve the citizens of the US. Another thought, I'd love to see the budget printout based on government jobs for the unemployed and taking them off welfare. Would the welfare budget and the cost of salaries balance or be almost the same? Would people working help the overall economy? I know there are persons discussing this as a possible solution.

Quote:

I am not sure why you divert to class warfare, when it's the middle class that will pay for all of this. You do know that the "rich fat cats" will always have great health care no matter what, don't you?

The middle class is paying for Congressional obstructionism.

PTC Observer
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OK DM

We'll continue sharing our thoughts, that serves a purpose.

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Obama - I'm sorry that I misled the...
conditon55
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Its the high costs, Isn't it

Isn't the real probem the health care costs ?
Dont Americans pay more for health care than in any other nation on earth for comparable treatment ?
Isn't the problem that the health care industry is systematcially milking the country dry ?
Isn't the health care industry adicted to the drug of easy federal health care dollars ?
And does't the health care industry formulate business plans specifically designed to milk the system.
And isn't complaining about wealfare mothers in Cleveland a smoke screen t oserve as a distraction from mega companies that are essentially scamming the federal government in a systematic way ?

Isn't this common knowledge ?

And isn't belly aching about Obamacare, which inculdes many GOP favored ideas (at least until they got put into Obamacare) a deliberate diversion and part of the health care industry to presever the cash cow ? Moo.

That is right unitl the government goes broke trying to service the obligations already on the table.

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Its the high costs, Isn't it- CONDITON55

YES!!!!!!!

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Article

I am a healthcare provider and agree with all you wrote Terry. The sad truth is that those of us paying taxes and or health premiums already tow the line for uninsured, Medicaid, Medicare, and people who default on their medical bills. This sort of makes it socialized already to some degree. One thing is undeniable - health insurance premiums can't continue to rise as they have for the last 15 years. So what do we do? While I'm not a fan of socialized medicine, I would have rather seen medicare for everyone. Impose a tax hike to cover it, and then let us purchase a good PRIVATE supplement. At least the alcoholic chain smoker sitting next to you in the ER would now be covered. It would be easier and less of a cluster fudge than Obamacare. The only solution I've ever heard from from conservatives is Health Saving Accounts. That's fine if you're healthy and 25 years old. There's are a few problems with that; the premiums are the same as major medical plans leaving few people with extra money for the savings account part, the interest is a lousy 1 or 2 percent tops, and finally, people over 35 are unlikely to accumulate savings due to illnesses. I used to be a republican. I'll never be a democrat. I now claim the libertarian party. Let's vote every incumbent out of Washington DC -- zero exceptions. What do you say Fayettarians?

John Giovanelli DC

PTC Observer
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Dr. Giovanelli

Why don't we just leave everyone alone AND vote every incumbent out of Washington DC?

G35 Dude
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PTCO-Voting

Actually this is how I vote. If I can't quickly think of something that the incumbent did that I liked, my vote goes the other way.

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Obama Lied

Period. Obama is nothing but a two-bit huckster. He is a fithly thief and a liar who should be impeached for pushing this debacle on the American people.

Davids mom
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Calm, intelligent thinkers!

From Mr. Garlock's article:

Quote:

We know there are some good things in Obamacare, like doing away with pre-existing conditions, eliminating lifetime benefit caps, keeping children on our policy through age 26 and non-cancellation.

HR 2300 Price

Has everyone read it? It's prime objective is to repeal Obamacare. The House tried some 40 times to pass it and failed .

Many of the 'solutions' cited in this bill are already funded and in operation. What a waste of time and energy! This is when the overuse of 'we know' statements indicates that politics and some politicians are manipulators and not problem solvers.

Mr. Garlock has made it clear that he does not trust 'Democrats' in previous discussions. Mr. Garlock, there are many in this country who do not trust southern Republicans. The 'we know' that is repeated throughout your article is a group of 'knowns' based on your vision. Your vision is respected - for being your vision - and not necessarily a correct vision of the present or the future.

From Gort:

Quote:

The only amusement I get out of the argument is how Obamacare looks similar to what Republicans want to use to replace Medicare, under Paul Ryan’s budget plan.

The interesting word that kept popping up after Tuesdays elections was the word 'together' used by the winners. If legislators, the medical community, the insurance industry, and budget analysts could have looked carefully at Romney's healthcare plan, Hillary's attempt at AHC, other countries plans - without the political labels - maybe we would be experiencing a change in healthcare insurance and deliverance that would not be so divisive. Our country will suffer if it's citizens are unhealthy! The cost of good healthcare in the United States is becoming prohibitive - and none is for free! Clinics and healthcare givers who volunteer their services, unless they have a poor financial advisor, include their volunteer services when filing their taxes.

Reform the tax structure; monitor all entitlement programs, etc. is what several administrations have been trying to do for some time. Has anyone checked lately into the subsidies that some states receive from the federal government?

There are many different visions on how to improve our country. Slick slogans and talking points will not get the job done. Calm intelligent thinkers from all walks of life in our country need to 'get together' ; find areas of agreement for improvement and get to work! ( That was one of the visions of the Founding Fathers when implementing our 'Congress'.).

Now if we could just elect calm, intelligent thinkers to Congress!

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D_mom, I don’t trust any

D_mom, I don’t trust any Republican, I don’t care where they come from.

In fact, I heard Hilary used to be a “Goldwater Girl” in college. Gort is thinking perhaps she could be the Republican version of the Manchurian Candidate, eh?

; - )

Speaking of “calm, intelligent thinkers,” what happened to SLindsey and Joe Kawfi? I haven’t seen them on “The Citizen” lately. Have they been banished? Could it be they’re ghost writing for Senator Rand ‘wiki-Paul-ica’? (heh-heh!)

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Gort

LOL! Just read a "So Long' contribution from SL. It seems he's taking a leave of absence. Mr. Kawfi has been disciplined. As for 'trust' - experience has shown that legislative action rather than 'political labels' should be the judging points. I'm watching Chris from New Jersey carefully!

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Dmom, maybe Observerofu will

Dmom, maybe Observerofu will come back and take SLindsey’s place again. (heh, heh!)

I hope Joe Kawfi gets out of the doghouse soon. Next year, we have the midterm elections coming up and “The Citizen’s, National forum” just wouldn’t be the same without a weekly contribution from the “Lord of Lies!”

I’m serious about this Hilary “Goldwater Girl” stuff. It has me anxious. I keep having these visions of her getting elected, and while taking the oath of office, an alien creature pounds its way through her chest to reveal she has a mini-Ann Coulter or Ayn Rand living inside her. (I’ve got to get more sleep!)

Gov Christy has to make it though the GOP primaries before he can run for President. The TeaPublican wing of the GOP is already sharpening their swords for Christy. Hugging the President didn’t help him. If Gov Christy was a girl, Sen Rand wiki-Paul-ia would probably challenge him to a duel, maybe?

PTC Observer
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Gort/DM - I don't mean

I don't mean to butt in here on your Kumbaya party, but just wanted to say that the mid-term should show how well the progressives are actually doing.

If you guys win the mid-term, well all I can say is the country is finished for good. All opposition will be crushed and silenced for a decade or more. Then we'll have the opportunity to see if the free market theory has any validity to it. My guess is it will turn out a lot like that Progressive beacon of a state called California if the mid-terms go your desired way.

Time will tell if we will have another 2010 election or something vastly different. I would say it's a coin toss for America. The Republicans have to decide what kind of party they are, Democratic "lite" or something quite different. Democratic "lite" seems to work well in New Jersey.

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PTCO

I certainly don't consider your 'sharing' butting in! I just don't think the 2014 election will change too much - we'll see. (Most locals are happy with who they've sent to Congress)

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DM - You

mean you hope 2014 won't change things too much?

Davids mom
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Nope

I mean what I said. Locals will probably re-elect the same reps to Congress. The change may come in the ' purple ' states . It is the national election that the Republican Party really has to do some major change of direction to hope to win the White House. As some of their most ardent conservative supporters have pointed out. - the attempt to repeal Obamacare was clearly a waste of energy except for those who were seeking political spotlight. The closing down of the government in the DC / Virginia area was not strategically 'smart' a few weeks before Election Day.

Davids mom
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Hilary/Gort

IF Hilary runs, I don't think we'll see any ' Republican demons' appearing. She changed her philosophy around the time she met the young Bill Clinton! Also - Chelsea has some strong 'progressive' ideas of her own - and is considered 'calm and intelligent'. It will be interesting to see if Chelsea is interested in a political career. Chelsea will be influential - as is Carolyn Kennedy. This 'exercise' is better than Luminosity!!!!!! Thanks for keeping the humor going!!!

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Dmom, I hope you're right

Dmom, I hope you're right about that, it still gives me the creeps though.

ps0kmm
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Typical liberal behavior....

Gort..."Poisoning the law before it was ever passed"? I believe the way it was passed and that it wasn't read all the way through or published for "We The People" was poison enough not to mention all the false promises and lies by the administration...There's no pretending to be outraged now; there's been outrage over the law dating back to it's pre-existance! "Hiding the facts" as you say, has been priority one for those that shoved it down our throats!
To read that you're amused about this debacle is sickening. Go back and actually read the FACTS referred to in this article. Go read the ENTIRE "Affordable Care Act" a.k.a Obamacare. Have YOU signed up yet? Have you received your cancelation or premium increase notice yet. I guess not, otherwise your post would have a completely different tone....

Davids mom
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ps0kmm
Quote:

I believe the way it was passed and that it wasn't read all the way through or published for "We The People" was poison enough not to mention all the false promises and lies by the administration...There's no pretending to be outraged now; there's been outrage over the law dating back to it's pre-existence! "Hiding the facts" as you say, has been priority one for those that shoved it down our throats!

In a working Congress, (those citizens who supposedly represent us,) the bill would have been read, and criticized before being passed! Congressmen hire bright young people to read and comment on bills when and if they are too busy/lazy to read the bills themselves. The Republican leadership proudly announced that they would do nothing to assist/work with this president - and felt this would gain them the support they needed for a second term victory. They were mistaken. They felt if they could threaten to shut down the government, Obama would blink. They were mistaken. Republicans in Fayette County will continue to govern and serve. Nationally, the Republican Party is in trouble for their obstructionist attitude which has been seen as a main cause for the slow growth of our recovery. ( we are recovering).

As for reading the bill, I did. (I'm retired). Full of repetition, unnecessary verbiage, and questionable strategies. There were portions of the bill that some Republicans felt would be necessary for implementation. It appeared that everyone's contribution was included!!!! It was passed; found to be constitutional, and is now law. A truly working, knowledgable Congress should be ashamed of this bull/bill.

This obstructionist political strategy implemented by Republicans backfired, IMO. Lord knows we need affordable healthcare. We cannot continue to be a world leader with 'ill' citizens. Our Constitution is based on allowing different factions to work together. That!s a Pollyanna vision that has worked for over 200 years.

It should be implemented in good faith by all participants.

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ps0kmm, heck yes, I signed up

ps0kmm, heck yes, I signed up for a Platinum plan. In fact, thanks to Obamacare, now I can take early retirement this year and still have affordable health care insurance until the wife and I are old enough for Medicare.

This Obamacare is great stuff. Not only do I get the health insurance, the cost of it is subsidized by the government!

It’s not a big subsidy, (I’m sure it’s not as big as the write off Mitt Romney gets for his wife’s dancing ballet horses,) but every little bit helps when you’re living on a pension.

My only regret is Gov Deal turned down the money for the Medcaid expansion. Our insurance premiums would have cost even less. It’s just more proof the Republican’s never do anything to help the working man.

Thanks for asking. How about you, did you sign up yet?

FYI, You can sign up without using the website.

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I call BS

Flag on the play.

Give me health insurance, not healthcare. I can handle changing my own oil

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Spyglass, don’t look now but

Spyglass, don’t look now but I think you popped your lens caps! ; - )

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REALLY???
Quote:

I can handle changing my own oi

With the cost of healthcare - we need both. Most are not as fortunate as you - and don't have the tools to 'change their own oil'. LOL!l

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Fortunate implies luck

Other than that, good evening.

Good luck trolling.

Davids mom
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Dr. Spyglass

Good evening.

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Garlock, all this grousing

Garlock, all this grousing about Obamacare is over the top, and mostly BS. Lobbyist, right wing media, the TeaParty, and all the Republicans have been “poisoning” the law before it was ever passed and now they pretend to be outraged, and chattering at every opportunity, “Look its sick!”

The reason for the mock outrage is to hide the fact the Republicans have nothing to offer in its place. Even if they did, my guess is, it would be too little, too late! The Republican Party has never done anything for working people and never will.

The only amusement I get out of the argument is how Obamacare looks similar to what Republicans want to use to replace Medicare, under Paul Ryan’s budget plan.

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Gort and his views

"The Republican Party has never done anything for working people and never will."
I am one of the "working people" who's been lucky enough to keep her job for 35 years plus. I'm daily watching the Democrat/Socialists whittle away at my retirement and hard-earned benefits. You could care less about me so I'd appreciate it if you'd save the talking points for those looking for your government handouts. You don't speak for me.

Davids mom
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ketey1 - Another Vision
Quote:

"The Republican Party has never done anything for working people and never will."
I am one of the "working people" who's been lucky enough to keep her job for 35 years plus. I'm daily watching the Democrat/Socialists whittle away at my retirement and hard-earned benefits. You could care less about me so I'd appreciate it if you'd save the talking points for those looking for your government handouts. You don't speak for me

I worked for 38 years; have been retired for 14 years. I experienced great growth in interest on savings and property values during that period. I experienced the Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon Ford,Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton and W Bush, and Obama Administrations. Clinton, despite his temporary fall from ‘grace’ – left a surplus in our coffers. It’s history what ‘W’ Bush left us. In my experience, the fall in the economy began with the Republican administration. Advances in Civil Rights for women, minorities, etc. were made when both parties worked together. Until recently only during the great depression have so many Americans required government assistance to survive. (And certain states received such large government subsidies)

I gained my retirement and benefits from my savings during the Democratic administration – and saw it whittled away during the W Bush years.

Two different ‘visions’. Maybe we both should look at the ‘individual’ legislators who are/are not working in our best interest.

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ketey1, what exactly has the

ketey1, what exactly has the “Democrat/Socialists whittle(d)” away from you?

BTW, I didn’t say I was ‘amused by the debacle.’ That’s what you said. Are you trying to make me sick?

FYI, I never speak for anyone except myself, just call me a rebel!

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Gort & 'grousing'

Suggest you try 2 things:
1. Research HR 2300, Empowering Patients First Act of 2013, filed in Jun by Rep (Dr) Price of GA.
2. Take Terry's points (if you indeed did read them) and try to disprove them individually instead of throwing the 'grousing' blanket over them all.

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AtHomeGym, that sounds like a

AtHomeGym, that sounds like a good suggestion,…

1. HR 2300, is a Republican joke and an example of, ‘too little, too late.’ The Republicans offered it up now because they know it doesn’t have a chance of becoming law.

2. Garlock’s blog,.. so much grousing and so little time! IMHO, the “grousing blanket” fits but in the spirit of fair play, let’s take a look at a few items.

First, the Supreme Court ruled the mandate was constitutional yet Garlock takes a paragraph to ‘grouse’ about it.

Second, the fact that “No Republican voted for it,” is laughable because the decision was made by the Republican leadership, on the night President Obama was inaugurated to, “not support the President in anything.” Now the Republicans pretend to play the victim and whine about how they’ve been left out of the legislative process. They chose to be left out, in fact during the legislative process they did everything they could to add one poison pill after another into the legislation. If you are a Republican, (or rely on them to look out for your interest,) and don’t like the AFC law, you can blame your Republican representatives for sitting on the sidelines.

Face it, Garlock is grousing!

PTC Observer
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Gort - For most

the worse is yet to come, unless you're union, your company will likely throw you under this slow train wreck one year from now. Let us know then how you feel about it, when it's your "taxes" that will go through the roof. Believe me it"s not that Mr. Obama delayed the employer mandate because he loves business. He did so because he wants us to eat this monster one bite at a time. Post a gain in a year, assuming you're not union, then you get a pass just like the federal workers.

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PTC_0, I won’t get a chance

PTC_0, I won’t get a chance to experience the implementation of the ‘employer mandate’ first hand but the company I work for has always done very well by its employees when it comes to health insurance.

I’ve been with them for twenty years and every year there have been changes to our health insurance plan, but they always try doing the best they can for us. In fact, our plan has gotten better since the AFC law was passed. I have no reason to think our management will change that.

Personally, I’m taking early retirement this year, by next November I’ll be on Medicare.

PTC Observer
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Gort- Congratulations!

Enjoy retirement, how will you spend your time?

I suppose you know you dodged a BIG bullet with O'Care.

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PTC_0, thank you for your

PTC_0, thank you for your well wishes. If I had a choice to be young again and living through the implementation of the employer mandate, or getting older and going on Medicare, I would choose to be young again anytime!

As I enter the final chapter of my life I hope to spend my time wisely and be productive. In fact, I’ve been working on a project in my garage for the past few months. It’s almost perfected and has the potential to be even more profitable than my “Snoopy” peanut. Would you like to hear about it?

PTC Observer
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Gort

You bet, let's hear it......you're always entertaining us with you wit. You clever one eyed devil. Even if your ideas are all mixed up and wrong.

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PTC_0, I prefer to think of

PTC_0, I prefer to think of my ideas as dynamic and middle of the road. I try to keep my yin yang in balance and harmony with my surroundings. Besides, too much “right” leads to anarchy, (Example: the US House of Representatives,) and anarchy is wrong and no way to govern 314 million people.

Anyway, my idea started a few years ago when I noticed more and more people wearing camouflaged military BDU surplus type clothing. The cloths work well in the woods, have lots of pockets for storage, and just the right thing for hunters, poachers, moonshiners, weed farmers, and/or even some local militia guys to train in.

http://redoubtreporter.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/olson-southwell-milit...

So I went to a surplus store, bought a few sets of BDU’s, and hung them on the wall in my garage and just looked at them. Gort, I said, how could you improve these? Time passed and one day, it just hit me like a ton of bricks! Why not modify the cloth so the shirt and pants can be transformed into a ghillie suit when needed. (You know what a Ghillie suit is?)

http://www.packrat-toyz.com/images/Airsoft/Palco/WGF11%20Ghillie%20Suit.jpg

My idea was to saturate the cloth with a mixture of mineral oil, vegetable oil, and a supercharged variety of chia pet seeds. I took a barrel, added five gallons each of mineral oil, vegetable oil, and a pound of chia pet seed. I used my Minn Kota trolling motor to agitate the oil and seeds until the bubbles were small enough to create foam. Each little bubble is just big enough to hold one supercharged chia seed.

Making tiny bubbles is the key to the process. By using two types of oils, I knew they wouldn’t mix and what I got was one bubble inside the other. The two bubbles together had enough surface tension to trap the chia seed inside. I soaked the BDU’s in the barrel, hung them up, and let them dry in a cool dark place.

When dry you can wear the BDU’s normally. The dried chia bubbles are hard enough to repel water and will not activate even if soaked. To activate the supercharged chia seed you need to add a capful of Dawn dishwashing detergent to a canteen full of water, shake, and pour the mixture on the suit where you want the foliage to grow. After about an hour of sunlight you have a fully blossomed ghillie ! Now how cool is that?

Unfortunately the field test didn’t go so well. Some of the men got hungry, ate the chia foliage, and complained it gave them diarrhea. They gave the suit the nickname, “Salad Shooter,” and that was the end of that!

NUK_1
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Gort: LOL...again

Maybe after your forthcoming retirement you can lend your satirical writing talents to The Onion or Saturday Night Live.

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Nuk_1, what are you saying, I

Nuk_1, what are you saying, I should give up on my “chia” experiments? Maybe I can add a little Pepto-Bismol to the formula,..? ; - )

NUK_1
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Gort: Maybe not Pepto

...try kudzu :) It grows like nothing else and quickly. Nothing besides a lot of goats and Agent Orange has any effect on it. Perfect.

Congrats on the retired life! Now get around to doing all those things you said u would around the house after you "retired" .

Davids mom
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Gort

Ghilllie suit - until quite recently, I had never heard of it! My brother-in-law is an avid deer hunter and sent me a picture of his. (Yours looks more intimidating and natural!!) Good luck in your endeavor! I still allow myself 10 minutes or so a few days a week to 'blog' - you're going to wonder when you had time to work - your day will be filled with those activities that you WANT to do!! Welcome to the world where Monday is the beginning of your five day weekend!!

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Dmom, I hear the same thing

Dmom, I hear the same thing from friends that are already retired. They tell me, ‘now that they are retired, they don’t know how they ever found the time to work.’

PTC Observer
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Gort - Excellent

narrative there pal, you and Shakespeare have something in common. Now let's see you compose that in old English and by golly you'll be there.

Seriously, have you considered what your going to do when you retire? Serious question on this, I would be interested to hear how your going to spend your time. You certainly can't spend all your time on this board.

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PTC_0, yesterday was actually

PTC_0, yesterday was actually my first day of retirement. It was like any other day in the life of Gort. As soon as I finished posting in “The Citizen” my computer shut off all by itself. I could turn it on and it shut right back off again. So I drove up to “Thomas Crossroads” and bought another power supply, (A little place called Computertech, nice people,) took it home, installed it, and it looks like its working fine again. I’m back in the saddle again!

Now that I’m retired I plan to spend even more time in my workshop. I’ve always enjoyed writing short stories, songs, and jingles and I guess I’ll do some of that too. I bought a guitar, (back when I turned 50,) and can play and sing well enough to keep wild animals out of our attic. But the most important thing is to spend more time with my wife.

BTW, I confess, I don’t know much about Old English but I used to listen to Beatle records when I was in Jr. High, (yeah, yeah, yeah.) and Shakespeare makes some nice fishing gear, eh? ; - )

Anyway, I’m glad you enjoyed the story.

PTC Observer
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Thanks Gort - Sounds

like you have your retirement well in hand, I have been threatening to retire myself and wanted to hear how you intended to spend the rest of your life.

Being nearly as old as DM, and coming to completely different "conclusions" about life, gives me some pretty interesting options. None, however, that seem more tranquil than your plans. Congratulations again.

Davids mom
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PTCO - Come on in, the water's fine!
Quote:

Being nearly as old as DM

I retired at 60 - and never regretted that decision. It's been 14 glorious years!! Talk about freedom! My husband and I are really in control!! Great to live in a country where individuals can reach different conclusions, disagree, and still find individual peace.

PTC Observer
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DM - I suppose

you received one of those generous California Public Pensions? You know I was reading recently on MarketWatch (owned by the NYT), that if you retired from the Contra Costa County Firefighters, and you really built up your overtime pay credits the last five years of your tenure, you could pull in $100K per year on pension. Not bad for a fire fighter. If your calculate that you would need about 9 million dollars in the bank to pull in the equivalent if you were one of those greedy capitalists. Here's the link, enjoy the read
www.marketwatch.com/story/whos-living-large-in-retirement-2013-01-17

I am happy you're happy though but I likely won't live quite the life of a California public retiree. Don't worry, your not alone, even in this poor state of Georgia if you're a public employee that retired before 2010, you get about 90% of your average pay for the last five years.

Not bad, not bad at all, except one small fact, you know those unfunded liabilities in that California pension fund of yours? You know the $640 billion? Well the California taxpayers are on the hook for them but what the heck, you live in Georgia! Who cares! Here' the link:

www.capoliticalnews.com/2013/09/04/california-unfunded-pension-liability...

Since I don't have $9 million in the bank, I guess I'll have to just suck it up, in that cold water called retirement.

Davids mom
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PTCO - Retirement

Wow! I'd just like to add some realism to your assumptions.

Facts:

This California educator receives 80% of the average of my highest three salaried years.
This California educator wisely invested in annuities and real estate.
This California educator also worked as a consultant to private industry

Educators do not choose their profession with the hopes of becoming millionaires.
Educators provide a service to the community that their individual skill and talent can fulfill when requested. I feel that the tax payers that I worked for for over 38 years received their money's worth and then some. No amount of money can match the reward that I have felt from the gratitude of parents, staff and students that I was honored to work with.

To young people;

Take care of yourself physically and financially by making decisions based on your principles that you live by as the years go by. Do the best you can do and realize that not everyone will agree with your ideology. Do not let disagreement make you bitter and/or envious. If you have done your best, followed/ adhered to your principles - in later years, hopefully you will be blessed with a peaceful and satisfying existence.

Decide to be beneficial to your community and happy to be a contributor on the best level of your ability. Retirement is an opportunity to continue to be a contributor - often with more individual freedom in your choices.

By the way - I was also a California taxpayer.

Some clarification:

The contributions paid by CalSTRS members, employers and the State are sufficient to cover the ongoing costs of the benefit program. Instead, CalSTRS most pressing issue stems largely from the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression and remains unresolved. Legislative action to address the CalSTRS $70 billion unfunded liability is still the most fiscally responsible approach needed to uphold the state’s promise to California’s educators. On behalf of CalSTRS, I would like to express profound disappointment that the proponents of the initiative distort this issue to increase uncertainty for public servants about their retirement future.”
The California State Teachers’ Retirement System, with a portfolio valued at $165.9 billion as of August 31, 2013, is the largest educator-only pension fund in the world. CalSTRS administers a hybrid retirement system, consisting of traditional defined benefit, cash balance and voluntary defined contribution plans. CalSTRS also provides disability and survivor benefits. For 100 years, CalSTRS has served California’s public school educators and their families, who today number 862,000 from the state’s 1,600 school districts, county offices of education and community college districts.

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DM- fine

Fine with me, you can spin it anyway you want. Public "service" is a pretty good deal no? I assume your health care is covered under a different plan than most Americans? I mean you're excluded from the O'Care provisions? Dental too?

Not a bad gig.

As to those unfunded liabilities, well that is a matter of record, besides the California taxpayer has you covered no matter what, seems they are reducing services to cover pension costs all across California.

Here's what your government has to say:

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/22042

Keeping enjoying your retirement, really I mean that, you didn't create this system, you merely took advantage of it. I assume your husband is also a retiree of the government?

Come now, consultant to "private" industry? Based on your experience and background a consultant to a crony capitalist I would believe.

Davids mom
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PTCO

Sharing any information from May 2011 regarding pension funds in general and not Calstrs in particular is just a bit disingenuous .
I have been enjoying my retirement here since 2003, paying taxes to GA., and learning so much about the diversity of today's southern population. . I don't remember anything about your 'background' but it really isn't relevant. If you are really near my age, it's time to get out of the bitter mode; have the wisdom to discern between what you can change and what you can't - and enjoy the rest of your life. I rejoice in the changes that I have seen in my country; I am dedicated not to let the 'old' days return which included limited/unequal choices for too many American citizens; and I'm grateful for decisions made by me and others to allow me to enjoy this part of my life. Service, in my community, is not a dirty word. LOL. Just sharing one woman's opinion.

PTC Observer
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So DM

You are on a separate health plan than Obamaccare?

I am not bitter at all, I have taken care of not only my retirement but my health as well. Call it personal responsibility. In the private sector, I might add. My point is that you have a retirement plan that is typically much better than those in the private sector. It seems that you rose to a high level in the California teachers system. So, you are likely pulling in more than $80,000 per year for the rest of your life, plus your separate Heath care and dental too. I am not saying you didn't earn it, you played the system well.

Disingenuous, is when you are part of a publicly guaranteed a pension, that's fiscally bankrupt, while at the same time lecturing us all on the virtues of the President's signature law that destroys personal choices. All by using force of law to rob one class of citizens for the benefit of another class. It's easy for you to do this because you have your guaranteed health care and pension by your fellow citizens. Now that's disingenuous DM. It's also elitism, why can't you see that people are much better off when they have choices that are not forced on them by people with "vision". The slow train wreck we see now in government managed health care is the reality of this socialist approach.

Davids mom
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PTCO -

Check out my written contributions to the healthcare discussion: I support everyone becoming informed on how it affects them and their family - and making their own decision. The elites, IMO, are those who find any and everything that a Democrat suggests in any forum as wrong. I don't believe anyone here makes an important decision regarding their families healthcare based on the political opinions of those who care to share their opinions in this forum. You have made some assumptions about my families private selections. Not bad assumptions - and no one forced me to make them. Our economy became a mess historically under Hoover and Bush. We are now hearing the same lunacy about 'socialism' regarding Roosevelt and Obama. The 'bankrupt' financial system is slow in recovering because of the obstructionism that we see in this Congress - and over 70% of the citizens in this country agree. . regardless of ideology or political party. . . .this Congress is a mess! Affordable Healthcare Act is now the law of the land. We have legal means to bring changes to this law - and it is not through using 'talking points', etc. I'm so happy you are not bitter, that you have planned well for your retirement and healthcare, and that your surgery has been successful and you will enjoy good health for the rest of your days. I'm thankful for the young people like myself when I was young, who invested in an insurance program that was affordable. The program offered by the district where I worked and the Calstrs program is large enough to benefit all of its members. (One of the largest group plans in the country) The only personal change I have seen in my insurance is that my personal physician here in FC has left private practice/group practice to work at the VA. . . . otherwise, I have no changes because of Obamacare. Obamacare is for those without current health insurance, The law has included services that some plans do not cover. Indivduals and their family should make their decision based on their own needs - and not political/ideology. Calstrs is not bankrupt!!

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Back to. Top DM

Up up and away!

PTC Observer
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@

Dup.