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Tipping point in the rearview mirror

Terry Garlock's picture

As America has been hurling itself toward fiscal Armageddon in recent years, pundits have described the economic tipping point we will reach some day in the future, a point of economic calamity from which our country cannot recover.

Optimists have said with patriotic fervor that America is so resilient that it will rebound from the debilitating effects of liberalism and the welfare state, we will come back as the economic and military superpower of the world.

Both are wrong.

The optimists are wrong in that our system is fragile and can be broken. I would argue we already broke it, that the tipping point was passed years ago.

I had a column bouncing around in my mind to write after Romney was elected, because surely there aren’t enough numbskulls to re-elect Obama, are there? With Romney and Ryan safely elected to take office in January, the subject of my column would have been this:

“We have a chance to turn our economic disaster around, but only a very small chance. And prospects are not promising, even with the capitalist A-team in the lead.”

If you can bear to follow my thinking, prepare to be upset.

Turn your mind’s eye to our government cutting entitlement benefits of any sort. The mere whiff in the news of cuts under consideration brings unbearable caterwauling, and the media herd stampedes to the to-be-injured parties with countless camera eyes determined to capture every tear for delivery to our living rooms with sympathy and tut-tutting.

So cutting is hard, we all know that. But how much cutting would it take?

Let’s ignore for the moment the “fiscal cliff” approaching at year end in which a multitude of taxes would be raised, begging for a recessional dip at a time we desperately need to fire up the engines of commerce.

Let’s also ignore for the moment that a Romney-Ryan pro-business America would encourage people with capital held in cautious abeyance to put it at risk to expand a business or start a new one, creating jobs and an expanding tax base to feed the federal appetite.

Let’s just deal with the tax base we have and the plain vanilla economic disaster we have created.

In 2012 our tax collections will be $2.5 trillion, but our geniuses in Washington are spending $3.8 trillion. We borrow from China and other investors 40 percent of every dollar our fed spends. The interest on that debt is $225 billion this year, but of course it grows every year as we pile on more debt, now $16 trillion and projected at $26 trillion in 2021.

If we separate federal spending into mandated programs (entitlements) and discretionary, you may want to keep the nitroglycerine pills handy if you have a weak heart.

Mandates include Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, government employee pensions, military pensions, veterans compensation payments for injuries like I received, and so on, totaling $2,252 billion in 2012.

We could pay for mandates out of tax revenue, but there wouldn’t be any money left for discretionary items, which are broken down into security (armed forces, FBI, CIA, etc.) and non-security (departments of Education, State, Commerce, Interior, EPA and all the rest). We could pay for mandates but nothing else.

After paying for mandates, $1.3 trillion of borrowed money goes to discretionary items to fund the fed and armed forces, FBI, CIA, etc.

Amidst this monetary madness, the Congressional Budget Office has reported numerous duplicative and wasteful programs, but none have been eliminated to save money. It seems the closest thing on earth to eternal life is a federal program because cuts and politicians are camera-shy when the screaming starts.

The screaming over even small cuts is quickly magnified under the media microscope to the point politicians avoid cuts at all costs; they would rather ruin our children’s future by continuing to borrow mountains of money we cannot afford to repay.

We’ve all heard conservative politicians chatter about eliminating federal departments like Education, Commerce, etc., and while some such moves may be beneficial, the savings are not large enough to put a dent in the deficit problem. The heart of the problem is mandated entitlements we cannot pay for.

To solve our fiscal problem, we would need a MAJORITY of politicians with the courage to make MASSIVE cuts to entitlements, not just itty bitty symbolic cuts with a little bit of bleeding.

The cuts would need to be so deep the blood on the floor would be knee-deep, and the screaming would quickly become unbearable.

Where do we find politicians with that much courage? Maybe Romney and Ryan would have had the courage to endure the national screaming from deep cuts, but they would have had marginal help from Republicans with re-election on their mind, and stiff opposition from every Democrat.

Would they have been able to pull it off? I have serious doubts.

Now that Obama is safely in the White House four more years, none of that deep budget cutting will happen, other than small, symbolic reductions that solve nothing.

Even worse, business owners who have been holding their breath, along with their capital, hoping for a Romney-Ryan change to the anti-business climate, now will have to deal with an escalating war on business.

The Dodd-Frank legislation that is strangling small banks will continue to spit out the remaining trainload of new regulations still pending.

Taxes on successful people (small business owners) will be raised “to be fair.” The administration’s war on the American coal industry will likely pick up in intensity. Absurd carbon emission taxes and regulation are poised to be revived.

Obamacare implementation plods along, prompting employers with headcounts at the margin to fire employees and reduce the hours of part-timers to keep their headcount under the law’s threshold. Obama’s anti-business beat goes on.

So, what does all this mean other than the inmates have absolute control of the asylum?

Our national financial condition is a ship having struck an iceberg and taking on water, but instead of a heroic try to keep it afloat, our leaders are heading pell-mell for more icebergs while shuffling the deck chairs and telling us proudly of our re-arranged seats.

In the early 19th century, a deep-thinking Frenchman named Alexis de Tocqueville spent two years traveling around our new country and noting his observations of our system, hoping to learn and advise his countrymen on the transition from their old aristocracy to a new democracy. He wrote a brilliant book titled “Democracy in America” with many insightful observations, including this one:

“A democracy ... can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy ...”

That pretty much sums up where we are.

Half don’t pay income tax. Moochers are outnumbering the providers, and Democrats are doing a good job organizing the moocher vote machine.

Unprecedented numbers are on food stamps, many of them people who buy cigarettes, booze, tattoos, flat screen TVs, have cars and air conditioning, and our government spends our money advertising to encourage more people to apply for food stamps.

A friend recently witnessed a frantic crowd surrounding a government van as free cell phones were handed out in Union City. Wonder why they didn’t come to Peachtree City?

We have raised generations that don’t know the good life they live came from capitalism and individual responsibility, and last week they voted for free stuff and collectivism over individualism, instant gratification over the long-term good of the country.

Do I think America will recover? No, I don’t. To look into our future, tune in to Greece.

While liberals accelerate their coddling the weak, punishing the successful and snickering at nay-sayers like me and thinking us fools, America is crumbling, much like Rome burned while Nero fiddled.

But even if we had elected Romney, and even if he had pulled off the unlikely miracle of reversing our course of financial ruin, do you think we could have restored the foundation of our country that has been trampled for decades – a federal government limited to constitutionally enumerated powers?

Neither do I.

[Terry Garlock of Peachtree City occasionally contributes a column to The Citizen.]

Comments

I hate to break it to you Eric Rudolf survivalists, but if our nation can survive eight years of George Dubya Bush, it can survive Obama.

You're going to team up with a bunch of survivalists? give me a break. Go look in the mirror. My money says that you have a huge gut, which means you're not lacking for anything.

And now you want to turn your back on your nation, which is telling. It means you are a fair-weathered friend and were no patriot to begin with, and all this time you were the same ones screaming about the perceived lack of patriotism from liberals.

If you want a repeat of 1861, then get ready for a repeat of 1865. It will play out the same way because there are too many people with too much invested to see hick states like Texas take all the marbles and go home. Those marbles aren't just theirs. People invested in that infrastructure, technology, refineries, etc.

Furthermore, those of you planning your "exit strategy": Good luck finding the country you seek. Where is it? Where is this so-called conservative paradise in which you can live by your Ayn Rand code? It doesn't exist.

The only countries that are equal to or more right wing than the USA are in the Middle East and speak Arabic, Farsi, and other similar languages. Better know the direction of Mecca, because that's what you'll be praying to (which is fine if that's your religion).

You want to try Canada? That's a nation in which the conservative party is more liberal than our Democrats. Won't work there.

How about Europe? Well, get ready for their national healthcare. It's a lot stronger than Obamacare.

But I have a better idea: Stop whining like little children and make the best of the situation. Put your UNION flag right-side-up and learn from history.

The Confederates were the bad guys. Lincoln was the leader of the good guys. It was about slavery. And the right side won.

So, again, I say this: If you want a repeat of 1861, you're going to get a repeat of 1865.

Wrong war comparison Comrade, this isn't about slavery, this is about government tyranny, you need to think earlier, back to 1776!

WE all remember how that one finished as well, with God's help and the founders guidance we will prevail once again.

"Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God" Benjamin Franklin -GP

S. Lindsey's picture

...that's why he used the Civil War and Slavery as an analogy.

You are of course correct in the 1776 reference. It is about Government Tyranny and the ursurption of the Constitution by BOTH PARTIES. The "R"s are no better then the "D"s. In this they are both corrupt and only seek wealth and power.

Show me ONE just ONE politician that goes in and does not come out RICHER then when they went in.. All for usually less then they made in the private World.

"Whoever claims the right to redistribute the wealth produced by others is claiming the right to treat human beings as chattel."

-Ayn Rand

Congratulations S. Lindsey!
You have succeeded in making a cogent argument instead of merely spewing vitriol. I would have never predicted this denouement from you.

S. Lindsey's picture

I don't spew Vitriol.. I emphatically state my beliefs and defend those beliefs with vigor.. Can't handle that.. not my problem

"Whoever claims the right to redistribute the wealth produced by others is claiming the right to treat human beings as chattel."

-Ayn Rand

Then pardon the approbation. Persist with broadcasting your myopic world view, defend your straw men, and vilify all dissenters. But don’t be surprised when your venomously delivered homilies yield no new converts. This IS your problem. Soften your tone, listen empathically before typing your reply, and you may not only garner an audience but learn something as well. Hope you can handle it.

S. Lindsey's picture

..with me. Like I once told a particular poster here who happened to love to attack family members when he lost an argument...one has to care about another's opinion to in order to feel insulted.

Anytime you wish to debate a subject instead of attack the poster let me know.. I will be your Huckleberry.

btw- care to share what particular arguments you think I have been vitriolic about?

You do know the definition of Vitriol don't you?

"Whoever claims the right to redistribute the wealth produced by others is claiming the right to treat human beings as chattel."

-Ayn Rand

Telling a Progressive I'll be your Huckleberry? Wonder how many here got it?

That is a Fantastic line from one of my favorites, I actually have a Huckleberry rig for my Colt SAA.

We all know what Doc had behind his back but I envision you holding the truth, the light that eliminates darkness.

Goodluck -GP

rolling stone's picture

[quote] ...I envision you holding the truth, the light that eliminates darkness.[/quote]

Darkness? What darkness? It's a bright sunshiny day.

Mr. Lindsey, the issue I’m addressing is your method of expression. Even though you consider my exposing your method as an “attack” unworthy of debate, in this blog alone, you have made the following characterizations:

“Reading comprehension is not your strong suit”
“the absolute stupidity of your own beliefs”
“feel good socialist propaganda talking points.”
“so bend over and say thank you.”
“Comrade Mike.”

You may at times have some valid arguments; however, your forceful and insulting verbiage along with hyperbole (“nonstop express train for Armageddon”) repel all but the most fervent disciples of your ideology. If your goal is emotional catharsis, congratulations! If you desire to persuade others, it’s failing miserably. Remember your rhetoric rules: Don’t let the messenger obscure the message.

Btw- even though you are using “Huckleberry” in the sense of a recent western movie, it also has an older and less glamorous meaning as a rube or yokel. I’ll assume you were citing Doc Holiday.

S. Lindsey's picture

... your historical reference is tainted by just a few months of postings.

You would need to read past posting of some of these posters to understand the history between us. So by judging me on what you have read here is a bit unfair isn't?

..and besides who are you to judge anyway? Don't like what I write don't read it.

"Whoever claims the right to redistribute the wealth produced by others is claiming the right to treat human beings as chattel."

-Ayn Rand

Mr. Lindsey, remember that you requested my citations of your vitriolic postings.

I agree that you can readily ignore my judgments of your methodology. My hope is that you will self-judge and adopt a strategy that might be effective and ethical. Think of it as a parallel to Mitt Romney’s suggestion for self-deportation because it is the right thing to do.

As for the vengeance motive you cite, perhaps you should heed 1st Century Roman poet, Juvenal, “Revenge is always the weak pleasure of a little and narrow mind.”

So was Juvenal prophetic in his writing when POTUS made the comment "Voting is the best revenge"??

S. Lindsey's picture

...well you know.. everyone has'em and usually they are full of it as well.

Much like you think my post are vitriolic I feel your postings are inane and barren of intellectual thought something I call Pseudo-Intellectualism.
Your remark about the "Vengeance" motive proves that point.. You clearly don't know what you are talking about but yet felt it necessary to comment anyway.

How about arguing the issue if possible and stop worrying rather I am bitter or passionate about saving my Country.

However I do agree with this..
[quote=stranger than fiction] “Revenge is always the weak pleasure of a little and narrow mind.”[/quote]

[quote=President Obama]Vote! Voting's the best revenge![/quote]

Yep I agree with that one...

"Whoever claims the right to redistribute the wealth produced by others is claiming the right to treat human beings as chattel."

-Ayn Rand

Great point Mr. Lindsey. The President's use of the revenge strategy weakens and belittles his argument just as it does with you. I'm glad you are finally getting it!

Has never led to cooperation. Let's hope all of our leaders understand this.

Robert W. Morgan's picture

And certainly not a civil war. It is not 1861, nor will it be 1865. Instead it is 2012/2013 going to 2014 where my fantasy is that Prezbo is confronted with an 80% Republican House and a 65% Republican Senate because he has been doing a bad job. Of course that is a wild impossible fantasy.

Or maybe something more realistic. Maybe the Entertainer-in-Chief charms the black and brown and tan country into a 50/50 House and preserves the Dem controlled Senate. Fine. Good for him.

But, this is about me and my exit strategy - just in case Prezbo gets some tepid support in the mid-terms from those that gave him a second term and they elect more Dems into Congress. God help us, but it is really, really possible..

Mike, someone who exits the system does not have to leave the country. The exiting person only has to stop paying taxes and stop being visible and stop being able to be contacted. Even the 12,000 new IRS agents that Prezbo has hired to monitor us will get tired of staking out that PO Box in Bumfluke Montana. Pretty simple and if I can do it - thousands more can and will do it. Like restaurant owners who have to cut servers and cooks back to 28 hours or just give up and join us internal ex-patriates.

Tax revenue will be way down.

Live free or die!

PTC Observer's picture

what I like a spirited defense of the idea that the good ole USA is not exceptional. It is just like every other socialist society, so we should just stop whining, relax and enjoy our slow spiral into oblivion. Right Mike?

There is no doubt that the United States will survive but it will not and is not United. There is no union because the people are not united, or do you deny this simply fact. The fact that the socialists won the election doesn't automatically make us all one happy family, no matter how you wish it so.

You are naive Mike, if you think that we will not pay for our uncontrolled government. History has shown that we will pay dearly.

Terry,
You've addressed one half of the equation, but not a word about the other monster demanding tax dollars faster than they can be printed. Defense spending is a significant drain on the U.S. Treasury. We send brave young men and women all over the world, spend trillions of dollars on their accoutrements, and accomplish next to nothing. Since the end of WW II, both Democrats and Republicans seem equally inept at reigning in defense spending or making any lasting impact on the world.

Let's make sure that runaway defense spending enters any discussion of how America is going to hell in a hand basket.

tgarlock's picture

. . . and you might find me an unexpected ally in your corner, at least partly. We need a strong armed forces - and a president who isn't an appeasing empty suit - but it does seem a committee of blind monkeys could spend our defense dollars more wisely.

First part of making our military strong is to stop using them as a leftist social experiment, pushing the notion that military service is a "right."

And of course we should stop pouring money - and lives - down the rathole of unnecessary wars. Our current wars spend the lives of our best, impose on them stupid rules of engagement that risk their lives to protect the indigenous population, seek world opinion instead of victory, tear apart their families with one deployment after another, and leave the rest of American youth untouched so they can play video games and focus on Dancing with the Stars. Plus, while we at home do nothing, we send these good troops on impossible nation-building missions, and do them the dishonor of all that being driven by dishonest politics.

I would be all for bringing our troops home, deploy them to secure our borders with lethal force (just to be clear, kill anyone trying to enter the country illegally), and patrol the seas on and below the surface, standing ready to squash like a bug any enemy that screws with us. If we are selective in which monkeys to add to the budget committee, should be able to save lots of money in the bargain.

Terry Garlock

Terry Garlock

Terry,
We are mostly in agreement here. Like you, I believe that defense spending should be to DEFEND the United States from enemies, not to police the world. A focus upon this primary objective would result in a significant financial dividend that would go a long way toward fiscal sanity.

PTC Observer's picture

I suppose it all depends on how you define defense, is defending our trade channels included? Is defending our flow of oil supplies and other resources from foreign sources included?

The fact is that all the fighting we are doing is to protect our interest in natural resources. While at the same time our government restricts the development of domestic resources including gasoline cracking. What's really scarcely is the fact that it's our government that's doing all this defending and our civilian "leaders" are "leading" it.

your comments appaling. In my estimaton, those are the ones who have made it possible for us to be in the situation we are now in. We need to make our country strong again, secure our borders, use our fighting men and women to protect THIS country and not try to be all to everybody all over the map. We need to stop sending billions to countries to trying to make them our friends---we should know by now that it does not work. We need to stop working behind the lines to prop up dictators and other reprehensible leaders because it always comes back and bites us in the posterior, and they end up using our equipment to kill our own people. All of this has to change before we can even begin to start recovering financially or any other way. And get over this political correctness--it is sending us down that dark hole and I wonder if we can ever dig ourselves out.

is expendable and the one we should treasure the most is our young citizens. We send these young men and women to fight for these countries that do not fight for themselves and actually do not want us there. In many instances, they come home broken in body, spirit and mind, and we do not do right by them. Not since World War II have we actually fought for our country. I often think we are like the young boy scout who is going to help the old lady across the street whether she wants to cross or not--we are always 'liberating' someone who does not seem to want our help. It sounds good to tout all the altruistic reasons we are there, but in reality it is because we want access to their oil or want bases on their soil, etc. We are spreading ourselves so thin that if the day comes anytime soon that we do have to defend ourselves we will lack the financial means or the manpower to do so. I think it is reprehensible to send our young people to be maimed physically and emotionally to protect people who turn on them and do them bodily harm and for all the wrong reasons. And this is true with both our political parties.

suggarfoot's picture

"Turn your mind’s eye to our government cutting entitlement benefits of any sort. The mere whiff in the news of cuts under consideration brings unbearable caterwauling, and the media herd stampedes to the to-be-injured parties with countless camera eyes determined to capture every tear for delivery to our living rooms with sympathy and tut-tutting."

If people only knew...Terry...Section 8 housing would be a real good place for someone to do an article and expose just who we are paying to house.

I found out today that we the taxpayers are paying to house criminals along with the poor!

The civil liberties crowd have been hard at work.

I have been helping someone with their rental properties. They have some Section 8 renters. One of them recently struck me. Later, I encounted another wanting to rent that seemed very pushy. So much so that I went down to the police department and ran their background. This person had 3 assault charges against them since 2010, as well as drugs, shoplifting etc. I was amazed. This person also was getting their rent 100% paid for by HUD. They were young and able bodied but didn't work.

In a rather heated conversation with a high up Section 8 state offical, I was chided for relying on their background check. I was told that they only check to see if the person's income is low enough to qualify and that as far as criminal background they checked to see if the person was a pedifile or had a conviction for meth! There may be one or two other things she left out, but she told me that was all they checked for.

I think most would be like myself and find it horrifying that our hard earned tax dollars go to house criminals as well as the poor. This is clearly an area that needs reform before anyone talks about senior's social security. Yet our politicians can't be ignorant of this. Is it because it is easier to control little old ladies than criminals? Is it because these people with criminal backgrounds would riot, while the little old ladies would just cry? Is this sort of thing realy fair to the taxpayers? I am frankly very disgusted with what I'm seeing.

weeks, almost 8 hours a day trying to report someone abusing the food stamp program and no one wanted to listen. It was easier to let it go than to try to investigate and do something about it. We are rapidly sliding down the slippery slope I mention and there is no apparent way to climb back up and the sad part is that our government is perpetuating this travesty. It is heartbreaking.

suggarfoot's picture

http://www.callawyer.com/clstory.cfm?eid=923321

I'm sure DM and the civil liberties group will think it bad, but people in other areas aren't taking it lying down....they are fighting back!

Rex Parris is my kinda man! Way to go!

Robert W. Morgan's picture

"Wonderful mayor" is not something I'm used to seeing on here. Nevertheless, it is indeed wonderful that someone is standing up against this willful government stupidity. As is almost always the case, we don't really need new laws and regulations - we simply need to enforce the existing ones.

Our own mayor did promise the new owners of Harmony Village were opting out of the Section 8 programming and cleaning out the place. How is that going so far?

I also suspect the Obama administration will itself feel "entitled" to interpret the existing Section 8 laws much more freely during the next 4 years. That will create some pushback from landlords opting out. We really are our own worst enemy.

Live free or die!

suggarfoot's picture

Did you read the comments to that piece? The town is behind this guy. Section 8 housing should be done away with. I never dreamed the government was giving out housing vouchers to people with criminal backgrounds. In my eyes, they are destroying neighborhoods and putting the lives of people like myself in danger, becuase they are comming straight to our door with housing vouchers. I had to get the police to get the one out of my office that I turned down because of her criminal background. For sometime time now, I have felt 'stalked' as she seems to turn up at public locations I'm at and makes sure I know she is there.

If you have a criminal background, you should not be given free housing and goodies by the hardworking taxpayers.

If people could see how mean some of these people are. The way the look at you and try to bully you. The way they tear up your property. The look of sheer arrogance and entitlement on their faces.

Our politicians know about this.
They have voted for the laws that make all this possible and are the very people that have enabled them.

Robert W. Morgan's picture

they are simply pandering for votes among the entitled moocher class. Even being on the dole completely doesn't make them ineligible to vote, doncha you know. The criminal background thing is tricky. I guess if they have retained or regained their right to vote or they have a slew of relatives that vote - they get a green light on Section 8 and lots of other goodies. 4 more years, four more years.

Live free or die!

[quote]Parris calls the lawsuit's accusations of racial bias "deeply offensive and hurtful." He claims that he received more than 50 percent of Lancaster's African-American vote at the polls in April, and he points to loyal African-American supporters.
Chief among them is Bishop Henry Hearns, who heads a local parish and preceded Parris as mayor. "I know him, I know his heart," Hearns says. "I know his household. I know how young people - black, white, and brown - were in his house and out when his kids were growing up, and they were just like part of the family."[/quote]

Talk what you know. California I know - and Lancaster and Palmdale have been peacefully integrated areas for generations. When Section 8 residents are sent to areas with no training on how to maintain a home, the area becomes blighted. Unfortunately, many families tried to escape the gangs by seeking residence in the outlying districts of LA City . The families of 'gang' members were included. Your kind of 'southern' hate is unfounded in this incidence. Civil liberties has nothing to do with this. This community is not fighting to keep it's city 'white' - it's fighting to keep it's city peaceful, clean, and secure. This community is integrated. I have no problem with citizens anywhere protecting the peace and security of their community - and maintaining their homes. There is no 'Clayton County' cry here!

Mike King's picture

You might consider it a bias or hate or whatever, but where the Hell do you come up with this?

"When Section 8 residents are sent to areas with no training on how to maintain a home, the area becomes blighted."

Surely, you're not advocating another government program. The blight comes from an entitlement mentality without a work ethic.

suggarfoot's picture

true Mike

Robert W. Morgan's picture

No, we sure don't need another government program, but if the government is there anyway "inspecting" the home and presumably doing a report on it's condition, then that inspector knows what is right and what is wrong. What would be the problem with him or her taking an extra 1/2 hour each visit to impart some basic wisdom to those that are clueless about maintaining a home.

I do know that the government inspector mentality leans toward the IRS auditor or Gestapo mode, but writing reports and assessing fines accomplishes very little with the free ride crowd. Of course you could argue that training means very little to the free ride crowd as well - they'd probably expect the government to provide someone to rake leaves ad clean the gutters and change light bulbs. Maybe we'll head in that direction during the upcoming 4 more years.

Live free or die!

[quote] they'd probably expect the government to provide someone to rake leaves ad clean the gutters and change light bulbs[/quote]

This has happened in the government housing that I am familiar with! Residents 'protested' instead of raking the leaves themselves!! A community group brought 'rakes' and spent the afternoon working with the residents cleaning up the property. After that - the environment was much cleaner - maintained by residents. Our president was not raised in an entitlement environment - and organized many of the self-help activities that improved impoverished areas. If we can get beyond the racism/classism/sexism - liberals and conservatives can work together to tackle some of these problems. If, however, we spend the next two years electioneering - very little will be accomplished. What happens in the next four years will be up to ALL OF US - not just the Democrats and/or Republicans.

No!! Strengthen what already exists by demanding standards of responsibility of those who qualify for Section 8 vouchers. In Canada, residents of a community are instilled with pride in their community - and there are communities where residents have different incomes, etc. The blight comes from the lack of parent involvement, community pride, low expectations, and classism/racism - that does not so blatantly exist in Canadian communities as in some American communities. The 16% of minority residents in Fayette County are not here because they want to lose the value of their property/investment. But they are included in the rhetoric against 'Clayton County' because of their skin color. They are not acknowledged for their contribution to the community (20% of business owners). <cite>At least according to some of the contributions made here </cite> This is not the reality of Fayette County - but it is the perception of the Republican Party throughout our country today. Get over the passing of the Civil Rights Bill. It is 2012. No one is crying or whining. There are citizens who agree with much of the 'conservative' concerns - but it is perceived as against blacks, browns and women. As if they are the only ones who have an entitlement mentality. Come on people. There are 'white men' living in Section 8 housing. There are 'white men' who take advantage of unemployment funds. There are 'white men' who are in prison, selling drugs, prostituting, etc. Don't we want an improvement of work ethics from all of our citizens? No need for another government program. We need to improve what already exists.

suggarfoot's picture

But if you can throw it in....YOU ALWAYS DO. Alway mudding the water so you can set the stage for your favorite thing... a pity party

You are entitled to your beliefs - but the perception of your beliefs is ruining the party of Lincoln. I'm a Democrat - and not involved in any 'pity party' in 2012! Wake up. Jeb Bush, Jr. and his young counterparts are the hope of the party of Lincoln. I wish then well. They can stand by their conservative principles without appearing racist or sexist. The 'Southern Strategy' has run its course.

I have owned and or managed rental properties for years. At one time managed a portfolio of over 60 properties. I have dealt with Section 8 tenants, no more.

They are not all bad, but in general, they are certainly not worth the problems.

And you got your 'government' check! If the tenants lost their right to the voucher when certain standards were not maintained, I KNOW that the managing of Section 8 tenants would not be as difficult. There was a distinct difference between those in California who took advantage of the training - and those who didn't. Unfortunately, there was no consequence for not taking the training. Training does not require another program - just improvement to the one that exists.

I said I stopped handling them. Too much trouble. Leaches on society, etc. I and the property owners just didn't feel right taking the Govt money. There should be a limit on how long folks can stay on this program.

And before you say it, most of the folks I dealt with where white.

Your point well taken. My point is that there should be a responsibility of the recipients in maintaining the basic appearance of the property. (Section 8). Or lose the section 8 benefit.

Robert W. Morgan's picture

Get a job and keep it, don't commit a crime, don't have children you can't afford, maintain the property, don't disturb the neighbors, no mugging senior citizens on the cart paths, pay the utility bills, don't provide shelter to your 15 deadbeat friends - all good and reasonable rules and when those rules are adhered to, I can fully support the government subsidizing someone's housing costs - assuming they can't afford it on their own.

Live free or die!

Even those who look like you and me! LOL

Robert W. Morgan's picture

Why we would even consider different rules for different people? We are all God's children, are we not?

Don't know what you mean about looking like me (an aging, but handsome media figure) or you (a Cleopatra with an aquiline face and supple body in a crossing guard uniform) - which of course means we have different looks, so what's your point?

If you or I met the rule requirements for Section 8 housing and we needed it income-wise, I would be happy to take it and move in and proud to have you as my neighbor. I would even agree to watch your cat when you had to go to the school crossing. I wouldn't feed her (well, I might feed her to your Asp - or vice versa), but I would watch her. Of course, so would my pit bull. And he (Vickster) would be yours to watch when I go to my AA meetings. You cool with that?

Live free or die!

The reality is that most of the citizens that I have met in Fayette County are like you. Unfortunately, what is posted here often does not represent your point of view as expressed in the above post. You're cool! This does not mean I feel you are a 'liberal' or a 'conservative' - just a cool human being.

been in drag and in reality are a middle to old-aged woman or is it DM who has been parading as a woman when in reality shim is really a balding, aging, beer-guzzling RM double. Oh, the agony! We have been duped, again.

Don't waste your time with someone who can't say 'yes'. You must have evidence of the specifics in #2. Store where fraud was witnessed. Time of observation. If possible, clerk station. Possible knowledge of additional income/fraudalent claims of suspect. Name, address, etc. of suspect (if possible)

Instructions
◦ 1
Contact the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services toll-free at 1-800-447-8477. You will reach the Inspector's General's Hotline, and representatives are available Monday through Friday from 8:00 am to 5:00 pm, Eastern Standard Time. You can also fax your complaint to 1-800-223-8164 or email hhstips@oig.hhs.gov.


◦ 2
Provide the representative with a brief description of the Food Stamp fraud. Ensure that you include specific instances where you have witnessed the abuse. Give the representative the accused individual's contact information.


◦ 

◦ 3
Offer the representative your contact information so he may be able to reach you with additional questions. Correspondence can remain anonymous; however, the Office of Inspector General encourages you to share your information. If you wish for your claim to be submitted secretly, always let the representative know whether you are speaking to her directly or using electronic correspondence.



Read more: How to Report Food Stamp Fraud | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5510624_report-food-stamp-fraud.html#ixzz2CmRD2aBF

DM, thanks for the advice but I was in the workforce for many years and one of the things I was most adept at was getting things done. On that basis along with several others, I received many promotions. I know how to go through channels, I also know how to look things up on the internet. The government posts many sites offering information on how to report things, just as our representatives post their numbers for contacting them everywhere yet the government is not in a hurry to follow up on anything or to change anything--it is much easier to let it slip by---but thanks for taking the time to look all that informaton up.

I have no doubt you are a very accomplished individual. Sorry you aren't getting better results.

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The Southern Conservation Trust and First Baptist Church of Fayetteville will be hosting Serve Sunday, a community service day, Sept. 6 at The Ridge Nature Area.