BoE makes case for district appeal

Fayette County Board of Education members (clockwise from top left) Barry Marchman, Chair Marion Key, Leonard Presberg and Bob Todd. Photo composite/The CItizen.

County Commission poised to join in

One local government has made the decision to appeal the recent district voting decision ordered by a federal court judge, and another is expected to join that attempt.

The Fayette County Board of Education in executive session at a March 14 called meeting voted 3-1 to appeal the mid-February decision by U.S. District Judge Timothy Batten that set aside Fayette’s long-standing at-large voting format.

The other defendant in the NAACP Voting Rights Act lawsuit is the Fayette County Commission, which has made no public announcement about its plans to appeal.

However, an email exchange between Commission Chairman Steve Brown and one of the winning plaintiffs in the lawsuit suggests that the county plans further legal action.

The school board’s vote was 3-1, with Democrat Leonard Presberg opposed and Republicans Bob Todd, Marion Key and Barry Marchman in favor of the motion to appeal.

The Fayette County Commission, a co-defendant in the case, will also pursue an appeal of the district voting ruling. A recent comment from Commission Chairman Steve Brown indicates why such an appeal is likely to occur.

The remark was contained in an email from Brown to one of the lawsuit plaintiffs, Dan Lowry.

“Racial gerrymandering is unacceptable and we do not want our recent ruling to become the new precedent for discrimination based on race,” Brown wrote. “We do not believe that you should discriminate based on race for any reason, going in either direction.”

As for the school board’s decision to appeal, Presberg prior to the vote said, “I couldn’t disagree more strenuously. I think this is a waste of money.”

Presberg said the lawsuit was one that “we lost every step of the way.

“There are people in this county who feel like their vote is not counted and (with the federal ruling) they celebrated a long-fought victory to have their vote count,” Presberg said.

Speaking prior to the vote, Marchman said several candidates for the school board and Fayette County Commission during their campaigns said they would push back on the disenfranchisement of the voters if district voting was implemented.

“This is a promise kept, and I want to remind voters that their voice was heard,” Marchman said.

In an email exchange with plaintiff Lowry, Marchman wrote, “I firmly believe we are making the right decision in this case for our county and for our children. We do not want to turn our county into five fiefdoms that are constantly at odds with each other. We do not want to go back to the ‘separate but equal’ doctrine and we do not want to teach our children that people who God made are primarily defined by the pigment in their skin. This is an evil that is worth fighting and I believe that we have the support of the vast majority of this county.”

Key on Monday said her vote to appeal was based on two considerations.

“I disagree with the district boundary lines recently drawn by the federal judge,” Key said. “And I don’t think district voting will be good for the entire school system.”

Key noted that when the school system’s initial district voting map was approved by the school board on Jan. 9, 2012, that approval came on a 3-2 vote, with Key and Todd opposed.

“I felt that the true opinions of the board hadn’t been represented,” Todd said Monday, noting that members of the school board and county commission were elected to be equally responsible for all parts of the county. “With district voting the focus is now on what I have in my district and what I can negotiate with someone else for their district.”

Under district voting, Fayette residents will no longer be able to vote for all five posts on both the board of education and the county commission. Instead, voters will be restricted to casting ballots for just one post on each group: the one corresponding with the geographic district the voter lives in.

The new map and the majority-minority 5th District are the result of a voting rights lawsuit filed by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and several individual county residents. The suit claimed at-large voting prevented black residents from electing the candidate of their choice.

The lawsuit specifically noted that no black candidate had ever been elected to the school board or the county commission.

The new district map and district voting process ordered by the court is being used for this year’s school board and county commission elections.

— Additional reporting by John Munford

Roadrunner
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For a historical lesson on all of this just look to the east

No, not Asia, Clayton County. The former home to several "National Schools of Excellence", Clayton is now more fairly represented by their notable (and lamentable) county BOE. I was such a proud citizen as the NAACP had the current and decent performing county school superintendant ousted because he was white and couldn't relate to the districts mostly black children. Result, well that was a total collapse of what little educational value still remained at the county's schools and ultimately the loss of accreditation. So I can totally see why some of Fayette's black citizens equate being represented well by their BOE members and being represented by someone who "Feels their pain" so to speak. Its just unfortunate that historically this path has also led to lower school performance and harm to the very group who's supposed to matter most, our kids. Can a black Boe board member make our schools better? Absolutely, just as that white Clayton County school superintendant could have. Its only when it becomes more important that we choose a person of a particuar race, black or white, that our society suffers. Lastly, for those here who disagree can you honestly say you would take your children out of Fayette schools and enroll them in North Clayton just so they'll get better BOE representation? I hope not for their sake.

Davids mom
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Mr. Presberg

is not 'black'.. . . .and Fayette County schools are doing just fine under his leadership . The economics and educational level of residents of Clayton County and Fayette County has a lot to do with Clayton County's situation. White flight and turning privately owned property over to Section 8 also has a lot to do with SOME of the communities in Clayton County. 21% of minorities joined the residents of Fayette County for the same reasons the majority moved here. (And there is not a 'gap' in education or income level in FC between the so-called majority and minority population.) Racism does not need defending in this county. Thanks for your sharing.

Roadrunner
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That's the best you can do?

I never said Mr Presburg was any particular race, but I do say that your much desired district voting will quickly lead to an area within Fayette that will forever more be represented by a black person. If that person was also the most qualified then it wouldn't matter, but the reality of race based voting is all too easy to see for anyone who's being honest enough to see for themselves. I totally agree that racism does not need defending here, so why are you? If you go back and actually read what I said I'm against voting for anyone based on race, can the group leading this effort against Fayette County say the same? Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me a racist or a supporter of it. I won't say any more about this here, but as most things in life be careful what you ask for as 'Change' is often not for the better. Take care.

Davids mom
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Roadrunner

If an unqualified black is elected, that district will have the same opportunity to replace him as those who live in the other four districts will have to replace their ineffective representatives. As far as the change because of District voting, that will happen only if after the dust settles, citizens will not be attentive as to what their representatives are doing.

Race based voting has been evident in certain parts of this country for a long time. I see it from my perspective, you see it from yours. I lived in a city where for years, the majority was white - and the black mayor held his office for 20 years. Blacks are still a minority in that city.

Robert W. Morgan
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Can replace an unqualified black representative of District 5?

Really? Really? Will we have all have a chance to replace an unqualified or incompetent candidate/office holder black or white in District 5? What if I, who happens to live in the bankruptcy guy's district (not willingly) wants to vote the black guy out? No can do. And what if the black guy gets a pass because he is black from the black people because lot's of black people have gone into bankruptcy? Is that fair?

I think a lot of black people who have been elected once get a toehold in and get elected again and again. Of course so do some whites and hispanics, but getting rid of any of them is really hard.

You write some really stupid and racist things, but you have hinted at why Steve Brown is going down, Brown clown going down because of district voting. Tough district, Steve.

Davids mom
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Morgan

This is one of your more intelligent contributions. LOL!!

Robert W. Morgan
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Yes Moms, I know. LOL

I have several intelligent posts and I am glad you like this one. You da man! Well, not really, but you are something. Something else.

suggarfoot
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Your bunch is racist when it suits them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto

"A ghetto is a part of a city in which members of a minority group live, especially because of social, LEGAL, or economic pressure.[1] The term was originally used in Venice to describe the part of the city to which Jews were restricted and segregated"

That is exactly what it is....and your buddy Lowery did it! You must be so proud...it IS racist....but your bunch is the one that wanted to be SEGREGATED into your own voting district. Talk to Lowery about being racist.

Davids mom
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District 5
Quote:

especially because of social, LEGAL, or economic pressure.[1] The t

Gosh, does this describe 49% of the residents there? They had to do quite a bit of gerrymandering to get the required 51%. of minority residents. Are all 51% living there because of social, legal or economic pressure? Thanks for the clarification.

suggarfoot
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your bunch

has tried to snake the lines anyway they can to get a black majority. Problem is, you really had to do some wiggling and you look like fools. It is a LEGAL ghetto, your Lowery made it so. That was what he was after...and that is what he got. You must be soooo proud.

Davids mom
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borntorn

No one understands better than minorities and women in this country limited opportunity and the frustration that it causes. It is certainly not surprising that males and non-minorities may not welcome the change that equal opportunity presents. Believe me, the debate conducted anonymously, probably helps to relieve some of that frustration. The southern hospitality and good will that I have encountered in Fayette County far outweighs some of the unyielding racist comments found in this discussion. Gosh, there are some Republicans who are actually 'nice' to Democrats!! LOL!

brewster
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non-minorities

What other non-minorities to you speak of, other than the obvious white male?

Davids mom
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Actually Brewster

It depends on where you are - and who is in the majority. In certain communities/countries - the white male would be the minority . He would have, in this country, the same rights as the residents who comprise the majority. The white male is not always the 'majority' - but hopefully is not treated poorly or denigrated by the majority because he is in the minority. Sometimes walking in the other persons shoes helps in understanding their perspective..

brewster
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DM this country

You were talking about this country - and it seemed that the blacks and women were bunched together as the minority by your thread of discussion. You mentioned males, which I assume were the white folk, so I was just curious if you had others in mind.

Davids mom
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Brewster

In this country, the white male has always assumed the 'majority' role because of 'power', even though today women are supposedly in the majority. However, someday power will not always be in the hands of a citizen due to gender and/ or race. I was only pointing out that there are situations in our country where the white male would be a minority. . and possibly gain an understanding of that situation. Even though this country did not have a 'reconciliation period' after Jim Crow was declared illegal, many young 'black' Americans were instructed not to follow the course of violence and revenge (a human reaction to suppressed anger and hate). Some of them became leaders in the Republican and Democrat political parties. Some became religious leaders. Some became leaders in the medical field. Some became successful businessmen.
Many continue to serve their country with honor in the military and government. There was and is frustration in minority communities in this country - very similar to the frustration of the 'white' community. Most deal with persons they meet on an individual level and do not judge fellow citizens by their 'race'. To see the resistance to minority participation in local government is disheartening - but not discouraging . The law will be followed and implemented. The Voting Rights Act is law. ID's will be obtained; persons will be driven to the polls; the minority citizen in this country will not be oppressed by antiquated strategies. There are citizens of all backgrounds and ethnicities who are involved in this effort. Republicans, Democrats, Independents - apolitical - persons who believe in equal opportunity for all citizens.

brewster
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driven to the polls

OK, guess we will drop the answer regarding the other non-minorities you were speaking about. But your post reminded me off another thing I experienced first hand: how David Duke was able to accomplish something that 100 years of NAACP'ing and civil rights law could not do in the State of Louisiana. He single handedly got every black person in the State to register to vote. Those long lines stretched around the courthouse and bus caravans going down the road was something to see - and that was not too long ago.

Davids mom
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Resistance to oppression

Is a powerful force - especially when one understands how a battle may be won - under the law. Gosh, a lot of energy is expended in resistance. If people hadn't bragged about the power to 'deny ', or the fear of having another opinion at the table, just imagine what progress might be made on other issues. There are situations and locations on this globe and in many American communities where I, a black, am a non-minority. (The majority of inhabitants in these communities are black like me -a white person is the minority. Kudos to David Duke! (I don't think he and his followers anticipated the outcome of their efforts). My point: in life, one may not always be 'majority' or 'minority'. I have been carefully taught not to resent white males - because it was pointed out to me that many walked hand in hand with US minorities . Native Americans, Hispanics, Asians, Africans as well as Europeans comprise the people of these. United States. In Rhodesia (Zimbabwe), the 'black government did unto others as was done to them. Mandela , in his wisdom, had the vision to reconciliate rather then punish and oppress all whites. Whites were/are the minority in South Africa. I was taught that minority meant less in number, not less in quality.

brewster
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power is the rule, or skin?

You seemed to imply that they who had the "power" was the majority. Assuming that is what you meant, and the rainbow of peoples could be in this "power" pool - my question is how would someone target this "power" pool as being the cause of discrimination. This pool could be across race/gender/political lines. Judging someone by their skin color, or appearance - I get. But walking down the street, living next door, seeing on TV - how would you know who had the power? Seems like you could miss the target more often than not without a specific bullseye to aim for.

Davids mom
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Power

Skin color (discrimination based on race) will cease to be the target. I guess some Americans will just need another target to feel powerful over another human being. Jim Crow, slavery, 'customs' gave those with less melanin than persons of color power in the past. Americans are gaining the power to select leaders based on other criteria than race. Hopefully those who possess leaderships skills will be elected to assume 'power'. Living with and respecting one another is certainly more evident today than in the days of legal segregation.

borntorun
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I enjoy a good debate too but......

haven't y'all flogged this dead horse enough?

MYTMITE
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BorntoRun, don't you know by now that DM is the head flogger?

She loves to flog, she flogs all the time no matter the subject---she is the master flogger. She also likes to bait people and she is also great at that. I guess you could say she is the Master B----oops, no I guess I can't say that.

Busy Bee
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Still flogging away, aren't they BTR?

This bunch (and I do mean all of them, regardless of political stripe)loves a good fight, that's for sure. That horse must be getting pretty sore from all that flogging. :)

G35 Dude
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BTR & Bee

Since this case is under appeal, I wouldn't consider it a "dead" horse.

borntorun
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Dead Horse

Yes, I understand it's under appeal, Car Dude. My reference to a dead horse was in regard to the comments and everyone's point of view. What started out as good debate has devolved into "you're a racist....no you're a racist....no you're a racist.....no you're a racist" ad nauseam. Clearly no one is going to convince the other side to change their opinion and now it's just school yard arguing. But hey....flog away if it gets your rocks off.

G35 Dude
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BTR

I never said the debate/discussion hadn't deteriorated. Just pointing that it was not a dead issue. If it upsets you my advise would be not to read posts on this topic.

borntorun
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Who Said I Was Upset?

It was just an observation. Sorry you cant tell the difference.

G35 Dude
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Didn't say that.

Didn't say you were upset. Only said IF you were upset.

brewster
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pebbles movement

Watch it - rocks are getting off!

Mike Mahoney
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To right a wrong …

...can often be costly. I for one applaud the FCBOE and hope the Fayette County Commissioners jump on the band wagon to challenge this obvious over reach of government power and placing the wants of a special interest group over those of the citizens of this county.

For everyone adopting a defeatist attitude ..."it's too costly", "we'll never win", blah, blah, blah ...you play right into the hands of the NAACP sitting smug and sure that what they have wrought on the citizens of Fayette County will not be challenged and cannot be undone.

When the going gets tough ...the saying goes. I say challenge this ruling. Challenge it with all the legal expertise Fayette County can muster and then some. This is a worthy cause and it affects every citizen in this county. People claim they are tired of "Big Government" ...well if this isn't big government I don't know what is ...so here's a shot at fighting back. For all we get taxed for, taking a stab at winning back control of the how we govern our county and elect our county officials is worth a few extra cents on my property tax bill.

Might we lose ...this time? Yes, but if we never fight we'll never know. Bad always wins when the good sit by and do nothing. And what of the inspiration to other local governments to challenge the heavy hand of the Federal government, special interest groups and the whimiscal "justice" single-sidedly handed out by agenda-seeking or kowtowing judges? Like the Nike mantra: Just do it.

ratbert
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Political

This is actually a political maneuver by the demorats. Perhaps it should be countered on that basis rather than the racial red herring

Mike Mahoney
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Not

You need to read the gist of the lawsuit.

This was all about blacks being able to elect someone who could best represent the needs of black citizens. Like they have such different needs than white people here in Fayetteville? I'd like to know what they are if they are soooo different that *only* a black representative can understand them.

The judge made a federally mandated ghetto in Fayette County ...they just gave it a nice PC-sounding name "minority majority district". Talk about racist ....

Davids mom
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Talk about racist ....
Quote:

The judge made a federally mandated ghetto in Fayette County

. . and you don't even realize how offensive that statement is to the minorities in Fayette County who own 17% of the businesses, pay taxes, support the growing businesses in the county, enjoy an integrated environment and appreciate the Christian love that is expressed by most Fayette County citizens. Thanks Mike.

Davids mom
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Maybe the Democrat Party used the Achilles Heel of FC
Quote:

“The goal of this case is straightforward: we seek to create five equally-populated election districts in Fayette County, each of which would elect one candidate to each board,” said local counsel Wayne Kendall. “By replacing at-large voting with district voting, Black residents would constitute the majority of the voting age population in one district, and would finally be able to elect candidates of their choosing to each board.”

The lawsuit claims that the current at-large voting system used for the county commission and the board of education “weakens the voting strength of minority voters, and consquently denies those voters an opportunity to elect a candidate of their choice.”

As before shared in this discussion, in Fayette County, the 'black' community wanted a candidate of their choice to represent them. One understands the assumption that this community means 'black only '. However, if one looks at history blacks did not support the candidacy of Sharpton as they did Obama. Why? The obvious difference in qualifications may be a reason. As the AJC article mentioned, if this community in the future feels there is a candidate who may be a minority qualified to represent them, they will have an opportunity to elect such a candidate without having other voters who may not want minority representation (Mudcat) at the table, to deny them the right of representation. Since the demise of groups like the KKK, minorities have little fear of whites in America. It's not the color of your skin that counts, but the intent of your heart.

Perhaps the dislike of Democrats is the defining purpose of this resistance rather than 'race'. The not so subtle racist attitude is the Achilles Heel that made this action possible.

Husband and Fat...
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DM - I have to interject

On June 11, 2013, Mr. Lowry wrote a letter to the editor commenting on an earlier letter. In this letter he commented that in his 24 years as a FC resident, only 1 African American had been elected on the county level. I just reread this letter and it made no reference to a Democrat.

The suit and the intent was clearly about race, and that's ok. But the spin is disheartening as I was expecting the NAACP to be prepared with a lot of competent people seeking elected positions.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Mr. Pressburg, as I think he has done a commendable job following his persecution from Barlow and the haters due to his seating based on existing (at the time) BOE choice in lieu of being elected. He is involved, available, and has made informed decisions. I am not a resident in his district, but I also hope to learn more about his republican challenger before I decide who I will support in Nov.

Davids mom
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Husband

The Achilles Heel in FC is not political party. I don't disagree with your opinion, just that there is no law against gerrymandering to create political party majority. - right?

Quote:

The suit and the intent was clearly about race, and that's ok. But the spin is disheartening as I was expecting the NAACP to be prepared with a lot of competent people seeking elected positions.

Me too, honestly / but that would have validated the NAACP 's action as racist in 2014. In listening to and following Mr. Presberg 's work, I too feel it has been commendable. IMO, he has worked for all students and residents of FC.

PTC Observer
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DM - And

he just happens to be a Democrat.

Spyglass
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Do you have a Stop Sign nearby?

Go have a chat with it, you will get more out of than trying to reason with our resident race troll. One trick pony if their ever has been one.

Husband and Fat...
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We get it

We all feel we were wronged and we don't like it. Of course the attorneys going to say, we got the short end, but we can win this time, lol.

Before you start spending our money, you owe the citizens the logic, odds of success, and the amount of money you're willing to spend on this challenge. If our great lawyers lost every battle to date, what makes anyone think they can win this time? How much of the kids money are you willing to spend and how long are you willing to fight this?

Earl E Bird
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What are our chances?
Quote:

Before you start spending our money, you owe the citizens the logic, odds of success, and the amount of money you're willing to spend on this challenge.

I too would like to know a little more about our chances. But that may be hard to gauge. In todays world it seems that the court can come to any decision and find a way to justify it. For example the supreme court could not pass Obamacare because the fees being charged were not a tax. So they just rename the fees to taxes and pass it after our liar in chief promised us that it was not a tax. I have mixed emotions about this decision myself. On one hand I agree that it's not wise to throw good money after bad. But on the other if we don't fight for our children and their futures what group will see us as easy pickins and come after us in the future? Using the logic that we won't fight as we're afraid and won't spend money to defend what we believe. If we overturn this racist ruling I'll gladly pay another $25-$30 a year in property taxes. But I would like to know that we have a fighting chance.

suggarfoot
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Earl E Bird

I agree with you. " But on the other if we don't fight for our children and their futures what group will see us as easy pickins and come after us in the future? Using the logic that we won't fight as we're afraid and won't spend money to defend what we believe. If we overturn this racist ruling I'll gladly pay another $25-$30 a year in property taxes."

While you go on to say you want to know that we have a fighting chance, in my eyes, sometimes it is more important to stand up for what you know is right. I admire the BOE and the BOC because they are not rolling over. People like them led the Revolutionary War. They were people like the "over the mountain men" who were so incensed that the English threatened their families...that they came over the mountain after the English well trained and equipped army, with nothing more than pitchforks, axes, and whatever else they could find. They whipped the English's butts. Sometimes determination against what is wrong is everything.

PTC Observer
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Not exactly Suggarfoot

Not exactly, the Patriots didn't "whip the English's butts". They wore them out, stretched their supply lines, and ran away extremely well over a long period of time. Yes they had a few high profile "victories", the Battles of Saratoga comes to mind. However, these large victories were few. Your "over the mountain men" example is little more than a skirmish at Kings Mountain. Cowpens is a much better example of a well thought out Patriot victory between armies.

This is why Uncle Ho was so interested in the American Revolutionary War. By golly, it worked again in Vietnam. Just wear them out.

That's what is happening now, the socialists are simply wearing us all down, taxing us, gerrymandering and forcing to pay for their feel good visions. So, if you think you're going to win against the racial driven socialist agenda, I think you're wrong, but that's just my opinion.

suggarfoot
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not exactly Observer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overmountain_Men

"After winning a decisive victory at the Battle of Camden in August 1780, British General Charles Cornwallis invaded North Carolina, and sent Major Patrick Ferguson into the mountains to root out the Patriot irregulars and protect the region's loyalists. ...........Ferguson captured, then pardoned a captured frontiersmen, Samuel Phillips (a cousin to Isaac Shelby) so that Phillips could carry a message to the Overmountain settlements. In the message, Ferguson warned the Overmountain Men that if they didn't lay down their arms, he would "march his army over the mountains, hang their leaders, and lay waste the country with fire and sword."[6]

Upon receiving the message, Shelby rode 40 miles to John Sevier, and the two agreed to raise armies and cross the mountains to engage Ferguson.
With the Overmountain Men and Patriot forces fast approaching, Ferguson decided to entrench his 1000-strong loyalist force atop Kings Mountain.
Ferguson was killed by sharpshooters, and the remaining surrendered. Loyalist casualties included 157 killed, 163 so severely wounded they were left on the field, and 698 captured.
Patriot casualties were 28 killed and 62 wounded. Among the Patriot dead was South Carolina militia leader James Williams. John Sevier's brother, Robert, was also mortally wounded. The loyalist prisoners were marched to Hillsborough, North Carolina, where several were put on trial for atrocities allegedly committed on the frontier, and nine were hanged, including Colonel Ambrose Mills........

His western flank now exposed, Cornwallis abandoned his invasion of North Carolina and fell back South Carolina.

In later years, Sevier and Shelby played important roles in the establishment of Tennessee and Kentucky, respectively. Other influential Overmountain Men included John Crockett (father of Davy Crockett)

In 1980, Congress appropriated funds for the establishment of the Overmountain Victory National Historic Trail, which follows the original marching route of the Overmountain Men between the mustering grounds at Sycamore Shoals State Historic Park and battle site at Kings Mountain National Military Park, and includes several branch trails in Virginia and North Carolina. The Overmountain Men are the subject of numerous books, including a historical novel by Cameron Judd, and a play entitled The Wataugans.

I would say pretty dam good for a bunch of very po ed farmers with a backbone. I would never belittle them, or their efforts, if I were you.

PTC Observer
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Oops, my mistake

You win again Suggarfoot!

Care to Wiki The battles of Saratoga, size of Armies etc. now compare that to Kings Mountain, skirmish. I didn't say it wasn't a victory for our side. It certainly was and it was a bright star in a pretty bleak Southern Campaign. However, it wasn't a big engagement.

As for disrespecting our Army, didn't mean to come across this way. However, if you actually read the history, well we wore them out pure and simple. Nothing in my statement is incorrect.

Mike Mahoney
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AMEN

Perfectly said suggarfoot.

Husband and Fat...
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Exactly right

I think the whole situation stinks and the community is better off as it was. However, we lost every step of the way. Maybe we need better lawyers, but at what cost and odds. I don't begrudge our elected for wanting to fight this. All I ask, I that they provide the logic, the odds of success, and the amount of money and time they are willing to go.

Just saying, they are doing this because that's what the majority wants, for a 10% chance this will be overturned doesn't make fiscal sense when we have other problems like clean water, and no raises for staff.

suggarfoot
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I think we should go for it

If we lay down, we will never know. That is how the NAACP has won so many battles. We may loose, but let's give the hell. I want to go down as an admirable foe (if I go down)

mudcat
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And maybe we can showcase our county on the national stage

The publicity might be a good thing and may catch the notice of some business owners in the north who have seen their neighborhoods beaten down by the racist NAACP machine and they may want to move here since we didn't roll over and play dead. Well, we did at first, but never mind that - this is a do-over!

And of course since this whole thing is entirely racist and driven by skin color, the NAACP will get some ridicule and bad publicity out of it plus they will be spending money on lawyers as well.

We really can't win since their brand of racism and intolerance is embraced at the highest levels, but if we showcase that it may help turn some people around after all. I'll bet David's Mom is rethinking her position already.

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naacp: Legacy of Communities Ruined

Good points mudcat! The naacp has pulled this same stunt in the Atlanta metro area. They have not one success story. They have left a trail of crime and failure everywhere they go. Compare the crime statistics and demographics for Dekalb county, the city of East Point and Clayton County.

When the demographics of these once thriving communities changed crime went up, schools failed, and white flight took off, and many businesses left also.

The naacp is jealous and angry anytime they see a nice community with low crime, good schools and majority white. They push their agenda not to improve communities but to destroy them. If the naacp had good intentions they would fix Clayton county.

suggarfoot
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sky

Everything you said is 100% right. If they would just go in there and turn ONE of those blighted areas around, people might pay them some attention. It is like letting a child make a mess of something, then instead of requiring the child to clean it up, give him something else to make a mess of.

suggarfoot
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mudcat

All good points. It is good to stand up, and maybe others beaten down, would do the same. You never know till you try.

Earl E Bird
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Maybe a fund?

Maybe someone should start a fund that we could contribute to, to fight this racism? So that the county doesn't foot the entire bill and those that fear an increase in their taxes would have less reason to object to an appeal. Maybe even if we lose we could make the "victory" more costly than the NAACP ever thought it would be.

Davids mom
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The facts as are being shared

The NAACP went to court to establish voting rights for an identified minority group in a county in Georgia. The NAACP documented that a minority had not been elected to two governing bodies in over 100 years. The courts agreed that the implementation of the Voting Rights Act had been delayed due to Districtwide voting in this county. There is only one other county in the state of Georgia that has Districtwide voting. It was assumed that the NAACP wanted a black elected to the BOE. Low and behold, the spokesperson for the NAACP stated that they support the 'white' person who is eligible to run for the office (he was appointed). He has represented the wishes not only of minorities in the county, but others as well. The majority of voters in this county are Republican. The candidate for this majority / minority district is a Democrat. Business owners are very interested in Fayette County because of the reality of the acceptance and treatment of the 21% of the minority citizens who live and work in FC. This county represents the New South. Scream and yell about a Democrat's possibility of being elected. - but calling the NAACP racist will be disingenuous at this point. IMO.

brewster
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DM and colored people

Sometimes great and honorable symbols of time past have evolved into a means to misuse and hide behind for accomplishing not-so-honorable and despicable acts, real or perceived. Overtime, these once distinguished symbols are immediately seen as representing those whose " words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords". Unfortunately, these symbols must sometimes be set aside to accomplish the goals it was created to accomplish. Folk from Dixie know of many of these symbols that are now gone with the wind. It may be time for another organization to change its banner and set aside the acronym that immediatly puts up stumbling blocks for the change that is needed. NAACP.

Davids mom
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Brewster

We all need to look beyond the 'symbols' and attempt to treat all as we would want to be treated. The NAACP used the 'law'. No matter the organization symbol that took this issue to court, the reaction of some to the change it creates might have been the same. Unfortunately, not too many citizens in the US are surprised at the reaction of FC. However, the reality of the progress this county has made is noted, and citizens are enjoying the human rights that are taught in the church, and practiced in everyday life in the majority of cities in Fayette County. Voting Rights in this country will never again be strategized away in order to deny a segment of this country a voice.

Footnote: When the NAACP was involved in what history has identified as 'noble activity', the same voices of resistance to change were heard. IMO. However, I do not disagree with your input. Thank you.

suggarfoot
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The NAACP...is..racist

"This county represents the New South. Scream and yell about a Democrat's possibility of being elected. - but calling the NAACP racist will be disingenuous at this point."

The NAACP cranks out BS to keep itself in business.

Blacks have long since passed level 1. "equal" mark and now into 2. "special privileged" area, shooting for a level 3. which seems to be "no responsibility for irresponsible behavior"

You can not make everyone equal. You can give them equal rights, but you can not make them equal. I am different in my own unique way. God made me that way. I am different from Asians and Blacks. I am not the smartest or the dumbest. I have things that make me excel in some ways and behind in others. I like me. I don't want people to pass laws that put me at the head of the pact. I would be ashamed. I am too proud of my own abilities to win or loose fairly. In whatever race life gives me, I would like to know I won it fair and square. But that is me. I am different, and I like me, warts and all. To persist in saying laws need to be passed, and special advantages need to be given, in my eyes, tells me you see your self as not being able to win any other way. Like you deserve special ed treatment in the race of life. If that is how you see yourself, the problem is within you, and not society. Everyone can not win every race.

Davids mom
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The KKK is/was racist

Would they support a 'black' candidate for office? The NAACP (national and local) has supported candidates of all colors in this country.

G35 Dude
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**

...

Davids mom
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Equal Opportunity

That equal thing doesn't need your defense or explanation. Given equal opportunity, minorities and women in this country have done just fine. I am not 'equal' to you. I have the opportunity to compete with you on an equal basis under the law.

Spyglass
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Blah blah blah

Bless your heart!

mudcat
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She actually believes her own BS

Knowing business owners from my job, my marriage and my church - here are the actual facts. They could care less about the 21% or any minority or any majority. They are not bigots or racist. They are all smart enough to know that Democrat policies are truly regressive - slavery being the biggest and worst one they supported followed closely by labor unions. Since slavery is illegal and labor unions are not, guess what business owners are avoiding when thy relocate - especially to GA - hint, it is a right to work state.

I'm all for a minority getting on the school board, although I don't think a black minority that is a registered Democrat can be very smart about the history of slavery and the role the Democrat party played in that. And we don't want unsmart mindless liberal puppets being responsible for managing the BOE - do we? I'd rather not have a minority be on county commission at all - especially a black minority. They tend to be divisive and racist and that gets in the way of governing. If anyone wants to challenge that last statement, please refer to the NAACP lawsuit and the individuals behind it.

So, if it must be, then let us recognize that Fayette County is 20% or 1/5 black and set a quota of 1 black on each BOE and County Commission, but only 1. Can't have a second until the black population reaches 40%. And if Hispanic or Oriental get to 20%, they they can have 1 as well. Seem fair, everybody?

Davids mom
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Mr Garlock

Mudcat wrote:

Quote:

So, if it must be, then let us recognize that Fayette County is 20% or 1/5 black and set a quota of 1 black on each BOE and County Commission, but only 1. Can't have a second until the black population reaches 40%. And if Hispanic or Oriental get to 20%, they they can have 1 as well. Seem fair, everybody?

This is where un-educated thought is headed. This has nothing to do with Democrat/Republican, etc. - this is racist ignorance that will hurt this country if continued.

Robert W. Morgan
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Uneducated thought, DM? NAACP ever push quotas before?

You really lost the debate on this page 3 days ago trying parrot Dan Lowry and his idiotic assertion that the NAACP lawsuit was not about race or skin color.

I have said from the beginning that having 1 black commissioner was not a big deal and if mudcat wants to formalize that using basic math and the age-old NAACP racial cure-all of quotas in hiring, then so be it.

You have really got to realize that you can't have it both ways. Equality is a word with a clear definition. In fact personal responsibility has got a pretty clear definition as well. I think you will find that a lot of this pushback black activists such as yourself, Mr. Lowry and the NAACP are now getting is not based on racism, instead it is a feeling that it is time for the pendulum to start swinging the other way - you know, back towards the center. Enough already.

Davids mom
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Morgan -Look up the definition for

opportunity! Organizations like the NAACP, NAAAP, La Raza, etc. were formed to create equal opportunity for all citizens of our country.

Debate? No, just sharing different opinions/viewpoints.

Robert W. Morgan
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Mom - Look up my plaid kilt

Maybe nobody cares about your stupid organizations and their so-called purpose. Most of us just want to live our lives without disruption from people or groups with agendas. It is like the whole gay thing - fine, let them do whatever they want with their supple little bodies, just don't rub it in my face - ok?

Same thing with NAACP - you already got equality, you don't deserve dominance, so go away now.

suggarfoot
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very well said

even the kilt comment!

Davids mom
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Morgan

If all Americans felt like you - nobody would respect anyone except those who looked like them. Thanks for sharing. Our children are learning to look beyond 'groups' and learning to apply the words of our Constitution to all Americans - even those who want to be left alone. One member on a governing board who doesn't look like you? That's dominance? Interesting. Nothing of interest up your plaid kilt.. . but thanks anyway. LOL! (Those who wear the plaid have more class than you exhibit.)

PTC Observer
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DM - Maybe

Maybe in your case the children can become the teacher?

Perhaps not I suppose. ;-)

Davids mom
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PTCO

A great truism: A little child shall lead them.

G35 Dude
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She actually believes her own BS?

I used to think so too. But she changes her story to best suit her rhetoric of the day so often that I no longer believe that. I now think she's just a racist agitator.

PTC Observer
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Political Ploy Dude

It's a leftist political method to

disparage, belittle, denigrate, deprecate, trivialize, make light of, undervalue, underrate, play down; ridicule, deride, mock, scorn, scoff at, sneer at, run down, defame, discredit, speak badly of, cast aspersions on, impugn, vilify, traduce, criticize, and slur

their adversaries into submission. Personal attacks on character are tried and true methods of "wining" arguments. All without facts because they usually have no facts or the facts work against their positions.

They also just love to divide people by race, religion, wealth and sometimes profession (investment bankers, private equity, etc). Their stated objective of equality is also a ploy, that's the one thing they can never let happen, the aim is to divide, not unite.

So, as DM specifically says she on here to address "racial" issues posed by posters. I for one am happy she's here posting, think of how less interesting things would be without her!

Davids mom
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PTCO/G35DUDE-EXCELLENT SELF-DESCRIPTION

What an accurate self-description of your intent! Thanks! LOL

I do not denigrate Fayette County, the citizens who live here, etc., Just expressing a different point of view - and thank you for expressing yours. Fayette County is the NEW SOUTH!

You and G35 have:done the following:

Quote:

disparage, belittle, denigrate, deprecate, trivialize, make light of, undervalue, underrate, play down; ridicule, deride, mock, scorn, scoff at, sneer at, run down, defame, discredit, speak badly of, cast aspersions on, impugn, vilify, traduce, criticize, and slur their adversaries into submission. Personal attacks on character are tried and true methods of "wining" arguments. All without facts because they usually have no facts or the facts work against their positions.

Can't respond? Don't try. Have a great day!

PTC Observer
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DM - Come now

I am far from speechless DM, not that you wouldn't want to somehow achieve it.

I agree you have a different point of view than me, but of course you're not alone, there are many just like you with similar points of view. That's the problem.

G35 Dude
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Sniff...

I don't have permission to respond? I guess I'll just cry myself to sleep...........

G35 Dude
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PTCO

Yes I do agree. She is entertaining if nothing else.

Davids mom
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BS - and Mudcat believes hers/his!! LOL!
Quote:

They are all smart enough to know that Democrat policies are truly regressive - slavery being the biggest and worst one they supported.

Democrat policies truly regressive? Did you ever hear of the policies of the Dixiecrats?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat

The ‘south’ left the Democratic Party when President Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act – which regressive policies, according to some would give people of color an opportunity to exercise their right to vote in the United States. The Democrats supported slavery – in the days of Lincoln. Take a look at current day practice of the Democrat Party in the south. Is it regressive to fight for all citizens to have an equal opportunity? The Dixiecrats were short lived – but the south became Republican in the 60’s – and Jim Crow flourished. You can’t change history – and Mudcat – I also attend an integrated church, have all ethnicities employed in a family business, and we, as African Americans who live in the south are smart enough to trust people as individuals – and bless your heart- watch our backs.

Quote:

I'm all for a minority getting on the school board, although I don't think a black minority that is a registered Democrat can be very smart about the history of slavery and the role the Democrat party played in that. And we don't want unsmart mindless liberal puppets being responsible for managing the BOE - do we? I'd rather not have a minority be on county commission at all - especially a black minority. They tend to be divisive and racist and that gets in the way of governing. If anyone wants to challenge that last statement, please refer to the NAACP lawsuit and the individuals behind it.

Wow, they told me that some ‘citizens’ of FC really believed this version of ‘history’. I guess believing this does help with the false feeling of responsibility some hold for the evils done in the past because of slavery and Jim Crow. Move on Mudcat! There are people of different colors, different philosophical beliefs, different educational experience who are smarter than some ‘white’ people. Districtwide voting reportedly gives those who believe, like your words express, the opportunity to deny a person of color to participate in the governing process in FC.

Thanks so much for posting.

Robert W. Morgan
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I know what you are going to say -"What difference"

Specifically, "At this point what difference does it make?"
BTW, nice pants.

Ok, mighty fine, but I have to give you the what for speech.
Quotas? Not a good idea was my first thought, but after a good nights sleep - I have reconsidered. If we do the 20% or 1/5 thing and can do it without district voting - that would be fine. Pretty simple really - just require the Dems and the Republicans to nominate a black person in one of the districts or the same district if you want to be certain. Can't hurt, might help.
NAACP racist and divisive, not good to mention that. Yes, I know it is true, but the power of racists and bigots is to deny the truth and embrace the feelings and attack the messenger - in this case the attackcat..
Dems supported slavery? Are you kidding me? Yes, I know it is true, but you are not allowed to say that nowdays.
Labor unions are untouchable - get over it, powercat.