Health Insurance - Be Informed!

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Davids mom
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Be certain that you are aware of what you are against. Make an informed decision - not one based on politics.

https://www.healthcare.gov/quick-answers/?gclid=CKXt4fT3yrkCFcbm7AodBlAA...

There are other sites that may answer your questions. The healthcare of your family is important! You have choices. Many hope that your choice is not to let your neighbors pay for your healthcare.

Davids mom
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Obamacare

Why is Georgia hesitant or unwilling to inform their citizens? Kentucky and other states are not afraid of their citizens making informed choices. . . or electing not to participate in Obamacare.

http://www.individualhealthquotes.com/quote.jsp?link_id=1000&src=G-IHQ&c...

http://www.healthcare.com/insurance/online-quotes/?CID=3685&SRC=hc_googl...

S. Lindsey
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Oh yeah a Government propaganda site as source....

... for information. No thank you.

I will trust the Canadians before I would trust propaganda from DC...

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/57535

PTC Observer
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DM - Obamacare

Questions:

Do you think the unions will be successful in getting their Cadillac plans exempted so we all pay more? Does seem like we have more and more exemptions to a "universal" plan for ALL Americans.

Now, why do you suppose so many companies and special interest groups want to get out from under this plan?

Seems they were pretty successful in protecting their plans during the GM bankruptcy when the bond holders lost their principle but the Unions kept their Cadillac plans.

Besides you are on Medicare aren't you? You've got it made DM, but your children and grandchildren that are all healthy, will pay out the nose. All in the name of the "greater good".

So, here'e my predictions:

1. Healthcare costs will sky rocket.
2. People that can afford it will begin going off shore to get better care.
3. Cost of medical devices will sky rocket and innovations in devices and drugs will go off shore.
4. Young people, who don't need or want healthcare, will be forced to buy it further reducing their already low wages brought about by limited hours worked. Likely, those that really want to work will work two jobs.
5. Employment will increase (government is already working on changing the definition of "employed") and wages will fall as a result of #4.
6. Doctors will retire or work part time further driving long lines for low income patients.
7. Many doctors will revert to cash only payment so as not to be burdened with government paperwork.
8. Doctors will become very selective on the types of patients that they take on as patients, thus aggravating the outcome of #6.
9. You will be forced to wait in line for procedures that were handled routinely today, services at hospitals particularly surgeries will be constrained.

I could go on and on about the unintended consequences of this poorly drafted and conceptualized mess but I won't.

Trust me DM, I am very close to the ramifications of this law, we haven't seen anything yet. If you knew what I know, you wouldn't be supporting the implementation of this mess. Your children and grandchildren will start paying for this very soon and I am sure your family will have a number of discussions about the cost of healthcare in 2014.

Davids mom
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Vision - PTCO

If knowledgeable people see pitfalls , why aren't they working with others on alternative/ corrective programs ?

S. Lindsey
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Simple....

...propaganda websites like the one you posted and folks like you who post the info as factual..

Davids mom
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Factual?

Is it factual that citizens will be forced into a government insurance program with no choice? Then why are Kaiser, Blue Cross, Humana and many others advertising their participation in the exchange program? Georgia citizens need to be informed of the advantages and disadvantages of Obamacare and make decisions that will be best for their families - not the conservative agenda. Georgians are not ignorant. Why the fear of exposing them to what Obamacare does/does not offer?

PTC Observer
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Knowledgeable People - DM

Would have never gotten this mess started in the first place. In ten or fifteen years people will have forgotten what great healthcare they once had and complacently wait in line for the next bad doctor to treat them poorly.

You and I will have gone to the great beyond and it won't matter much to us. Our children and grandchildren will live with our President's misguided efforts to make us all "equal". The rich will get great healthcare, the poor will get the same poor healthcare they got before this law and the middle class will get screwed and pay out the nose just like they always do.

But heck what do I know, I have only been in the healthcare field for most of my life, I'll retire soon anyway and leave it to the "visionaries" like you.

Now if you want a solution, look to individual freedom to choose and get the government out of our lives.

Davids mom
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Quote:

The rich will get great healthcare, the poor will get the same poor healthcare they got before this law and the middle class will get screwed and pay out the nose just like they always do.

The rich already get great health care; the poor get NONE! (except in ER rooms that you and I pay for); the middle class is getting care even with pre-conditions; and children without jobs can remain on the parents healthcare plan until they are 26. There are problems with any 'new' program - but to obstruct good healthcare because of politics is inexcusable. Anyway - the obstructionists will not prevail - after some 51 tries - and if they succeed in shutting down the government on October 1 - that will be the end of the Republican Party. Are the Libertarians ready to lead?

What is the Libertarian Plan that will have us healthy and financially secure in 10-15 years?

PTC Observer
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DM - just to clarify

1. The rich will always have great health care, they pay for it no matter where it is in the world
2. The poor in this country has always gotten poor health care and the law will not change this, they will still get poor health care. Waiting for constrained service, poor docs, etc.
3. The middle class will get to wait in line with the poor making them more "equal", they will pay more for it because the middle class pays for everything. This includes the young people that will be forced to pay for services that they don't typically use.

It's a mess and it's going to get worse DM.

Davids mom
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Please answer this question or direct me to the site
Quote:

What is the Libertarian Plan that will have us healthy and financially secure in 10-15 years?

Even if there are philosophical differences, by rationally presenting the plan, there just may be areas where leaders can work together for the benefit of our country.

PTC Observer
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DM - Which

"leaders" are you referring?

We don't need "leaders", Stalin was a "leader", Hitler was a "leader", Castro was a "leader", we don't need no stink'in leaders.

What we need is individual freedom and free markets, that's all DM.

Davids mom
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Quote:

individual freedom to choose and get the government out of our lives.

LOL! Your answer to everything! Great! Tell us how you have used this in your experience in the healthcare field. It may prove most beneficial to those of us who are not knowledgable. Thanks!

By the way - tell us how you are not going to take advantage of Medicare.

PTC Observer
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The answer - DM

Is a solution, not a reality, or it wouldn't be a solution to the reality.

Do you understand?

I live in the reality of how things are not the way things should be, I can't control the way things are just as you can't control the weather. However, IMHO things would be significantly better with more individual freedom and free markets. The fact that government has its tentacles all over healthcare and our lives is the reality. The proof of how well it's working is painfully obvious for all to see. It will only get worse DM but the slow decaying orbit will not be felt until everyone is use to even poorer healthcare. Then it will be too late. The rich will always have the best healthcare, they can simply buy it. The poor will continue to get the worst out of a decayed and degraded system. The middle class will pay for it all and get poorer healthcare too.

So there you go DM, it's the government. That's all I need to say.

I don't need to rely on Medicare, now or in the future .

You and your ilk will never learn that above all else, aside from life, human freedom is the most precious of God's gifts. Why do you trust the power of government with it, are they not just a collection of imperfect people with the power of law?

AtHomeGym
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PTCO & Medicare

Been totally retired for 12 yrs and am 74: no Medicare for me--I pay my own way--or to be totally honest, I pay what my Federal Employee Health Benefits Program benefit does not. And just today I received email from my insurer (GEHA) giving me 2014 rates which are up some but no more than the last 2 yrs.

PTC Observer
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AHG - I'll

Just bet that gym of yours helps out a lot too. ;-)

Geee you're almost as old as DM

Gort
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PTC_0, most of your

PTC_0, most of your predictions were facts of life even before the Affordable Health Care law was passed, is this not so?

The reason the Federal Government had to pass the Affordable Health Care law was because State Governments were so willing to do the bidding of insurance lobbyist and prevent any meaningful reforms. (The exception being the state of Massachusetts, led by Republican Governor Mitt Romney. How ironic is that, heh, heh!)

When the Affordable Health Care law goes into full effect, more working families without health insurance can now afford it, and insurance companies can’t turn you down for preexisting conditions.

It isn’t perfect but, it’s good enough for what I need.

PTC Observer
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Good enough Gort?

For you, could be..

Gort
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PTC_0, the alternative is to

PTC_0, the alternative is to do nothing and let the “invisible hand of free markets” solve all our problems.

Unfortunately “free markets” only exist in economic theory and mankind lives the world of reality.

PTC Observer
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Gort - Reality vs........

what's your reality Gort?

Freedom is not a theory Gort, it is. Therefore, it follows that if people were free to choose and not constrained in enterprise, the world would be better off than using government to "manage" their economic choices.

The "invisible hand" is predicated on the notion that government is required to keep crooks from infringing the rights of others. This is the philosophical basis of our founding documents Gort. Unfortunately, the crooks have taken control of the government, and its power.

So, if this is the reality which you refer, then you are correct.

Gort
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PTC_0, don’t crucify me on

PTC_0, don’t crucify me on your cross of the “invisible hand” for the sake of a mindless philosophy! (How was that for dramatic effect?) Face it, your “invisible hand” must have been busy doing something else when it comes to health insurance.

Besides, what do I know about philosophy, it’s a pursuit enjoyed by the elite? I’m just a working stiff, living in a cul-de-sac in Coweta County, looking out at the world, and calling ‘em as I see ‘em.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRma7PDW10

PTC Observer
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Gort!

I didn't realize you were a movie star! ;-)

Gort
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PTC_0, I hope not, Alex

PTC_0, I hope not, Alex Karras is dead now.

Davids mom
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The Problem With Cost

Is not the cost of the insurance - but the cost of the delivery of health care in the United States.

Cyclist
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Davids mom - Insurance

"Is not the cost of the insurance......"

So it's not about those evil insurance companies and their profits after all? I’m shocked!!!

Cyclist
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Gort - Flood Insurance Subsidies

Sorry, had to move for a wider thread.

The Biggert-Waters Flood Insurance Reform Act of 2012 will phase out those subsities. Care to tell us what the defiect is for this program so far? No wonder the president signed this. Why he isn't concern about the deficits Obamacare will bring is most interesting.

BTW about employers cutting hours, some of those employers are local such as school boards. They can't absorb the cost of Obamacare without raising taxes.

Davids mom
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Cyclist

It's the cost of those private individuals who insist on looking for ways to continue for the CEO's of their stock-holding companies to make them profit while paying the CEO'S millions of dollars in salary and stock options. It's the cost of the fraud and corruption in our healthcare deliverance system; the cost of good hospitals with excellent doctors charging 25 cents or more for a band-aid, etc. LOL. After spending the last few years going over what insurance paid for health care for relatives, I am most grateful for the care my relatives received, most grateful that I had insurance to pay the cost - other wise there is a great possibility that my family would now be in the poor-house. My reasoning? If the cost of healthcare was not filled with fraud and corruption - the cost of insurance would not be so high. I could be wrong!

LongTimer
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Be Informed, Hegelian Dialectic are you familiar with this?

Okay boys and girls time for a History/Psychology lesson. Does anyone know how we got roped into having the Federal Reserve(a non federal institution), or Obama care?

It was a little thing called the Hegelian Dialectic, in simple terms, it's where a group of people creates a problem, knowing full well in advance how people are going to react to it. They then begin agitating for something to be done about the problem, for things to change. Once the masses are then worked up enough and desperate enough for something to be done, the party behind the problem unveils their solution. The people are thrilled to have a plan, any plan, and so demand that it be implemented. They never seem to realize that they have been manipulated and that they haven't really ushered in change, but actually a much worse version of what they had previously, only now in brand-new packaging.

This happened on Jekyll Island in November, 1910 and was lead by J.P. Morgan and a group of New York bankers and it is the reason that we the Tax Payers are now Financially responsible for Banks going bust instead of the Bankers themselves.
Go forward 100 years and history repeats itself in the case of Obama care. Pay attention people and take the time to think for yourselves, as in the Fed we have been duped at the highest levels.

Think for yourselves and quit being led around like sheep!

Davids mom
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Long timer/PTCO

The sheep are still looking for a shepard - and all they/we are getting is a change of manipulators - and a nation whose healthcare is not 'superior' and for too many inaccessible .. The opposition to Obamacare - what are they offering? Not arguing with your observations, just looking for the 'old' American enginuity to kick in before we end up with a majority of unhealthy citizens.

PTC Observer
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Alternatives DM

Get government out of health care, something it is wholly unqualified to do. The government screws up nearly everything it touches.

There you go DM an alternative.

Davids mom
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PTCO

Get government out - and then what? What do you have in mind for those who are not rich or unemployed without the benefit of health insurance. What is insurance paying for? An over priced healthcare system filled with fraud and corruption. But we are being led to fear the insurance system and not the sacred cow of the delivery of care. The younger generation is the hope. They are the opposite of the naysayers. The evidence of change in attitude coming? The rich weren't able to buy the vote in 2008 and 2012 (except in the red states).

Quote:

Get government out of health care, something it is wholly unqualified to do. The government screws up nearly everything it touches.

There you go DM an alternative.

Not a well thought out alternative, IMO

S. Lindsey
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Why can't States offer Insurance to other Residents....

...of other States?

Because of Government DM...

Get Government out of the business of business... and the Market will handle it.

BTW- Why do I have to pay for the Alcoholic or the Gay couples HIV treatments or the Diabetes treatment for the 400 pounder DM?

Why do we need a "Government" program for those that refuse to take responsibility for their own lives?

Medicaid is there for the truly indigent? So why is that not enough?

Why can't we have a program for those that truly need catastrophic care or are truly indigent? Why do we ALL have to kneel at the alter of Government?

Why? Control that's why... Make Government responsible for your health and Government will always be able to control the people so they can socially engineer what THEY believe the proper societal norms should be... They tried it with the Tax code it is just not fast enough so viola here comes Obamacare.

Davids mom
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SL

My health insurance is from California. What is Georgia offering you? YOU are not paying for anyone else's healtcareh unless they don 't have insurance. Has the government taken over Kaiser, Humana, Blue Cross, etc. etc. etc? These are the few of many choices offered on the Exchange Program. IF one is employed, and has healthcare benefit, he is not REQUIRED to participate in Obamacare. If one qualifies for Medicaid, he is already on a government program. The same for Medicare. There are problems with this plan, but sincere members of Congress could have looked for improvements instead of the political game of beat Obama by defunding the Affordable program. The message that is being heard is at least Obama cares.

S. Lindsey
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Fundamentally incorrect...

DM NONE of your ascertions are fact...they are conjecture based on what the ACA is PROMISED to do.

Show me one Governmental program that has delieved as promised?

You can't because there isn't one.

DM wrote:

YOU are not paying for anyone else's healtcareh unless they don 't have insurance.

Exactly my point... Thanks.

Davids mom
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SL

My health insurance is from California. THIS IS A FACT.

S. Lindsey
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Well...

...at least you did have ONE "fact" correct...

Davids mom
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SL - Another fact

Healthcare insurance for school age children; healthcare insurance for children up 26 covered by their parents insurance program; I KNOW, I KNOW - I'M A MONTH LATE WITH THIS - AND I'M SURE YOU HAVE FOUND THIS OUT DURING YOUR RESEARCH OF THE AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE PROGRAM - which Ted Cruz failed to defund - and we paid millions of dollars, unnecessarily during the 'shut down'. Great economic strategy!!

LongTimer
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Great Economic Strategy?

$695,000,000.00 for a Website that doesn't work, you can't blame the Repubs for that one.
The Dems own that one wholly, and they say we're stupid.
$695,000,000.00, they had 3 years to make it work but couldn't do it. But hell when your using other peoples money and no one to answer to, you can piss it away, I mean who cares. Its not our money, its the Governments right.

Davids mom
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longtimer right? No - pathetically wrong
Quote:

$695,000,000.00 for a Website that doesn't work, you can't blame the Repubs for that one.
The Dems own that one wholly, and they say we're stupid.

Oh - if the strategy continues, I wouldn't be surprised that around the 2014 (election) someone finds a defund Obamacare supporter involved in 'hacking' the website. I think most Americans are calling many politicians at this point - stupid.

PTC Observer
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Nothing - DM

Absolutely nothing, just leave people to their on purposes. You'd be surprised at the result. You or your government program can't solve "problems", individuals can.

Davids mom
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PTCO

Then why did the founding fathers even bother with the writing of The Constitution? Individuals can handle providing everything for themselves? Interesting concept. Get government out of everything! Send Congress home; close all schools; disband law enforcement; stop all communication with other countries; etc., etc., etc. I understand your concerns and distrust. I just don't agree with the words you offer as possible solutions.

PTC Observer
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DM - Did

Did I say this? I think the subject was healthcare.

Davids mom
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You or your government program can't solve "problems", individuals can

That is what you said - and what I responded to. I just feel if this were true - we really don't need a Constitution; a Congress; etc. We can just individually do everything for ourselves. (I'm grateful for our Constitution - as a guideline for living 'together'.) I find Gort's comments more in line with my thinking, . .but thanks for sharing. I wish that individuals would work coopertively together in order for progress to continue in the US.

PTC Observer
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Surprised DM

That you agree with Gort. ;-)

No matter how you want to twist it, the outcome will speak for itself. It will be Mr. Obama's legacy, a poorer nation, with poorer healthcare, and a government that screws the middle class.

I repeat, I have more confidence in people solving problems on their own than any bureaucracy that political minds can devise. People acting individually can solve problems significantly better than command and control economics. It's called freedom to choose DM.

Gort
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PTC_0, are you suggesting, if

PTC_0, are you suggesting, if we need our appendix removed, we should stand in front of the mirror and perform the operation ourselves, with the tools we have on hand?

PTC Observer
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Gort - You

are free to try, but if I were you, I would go hire a good general surgeon.

Gort
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PTC_0, that’s what I would do

PTC_0, that’s what I would do too, I was just testing how far you would take the “People acting individually can solve problems” statement you made.

It’s nice to have health insurance when you need it, eh?

PTC Observer
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What part Gort

Should government have in you hiring a surgeon? You want insurance to help you pay for that go buy it. Don't force me to help you pay for it using the power of government.

That's called individualism Gort.

Gort
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PTC_0, come on now, stop it.

PTC_0, come on now, stop it. You know the government doesn’t have anything to do with picking your doctor. (Except maybe the mandatory vaginal probe procedure in Virginia! So much for the wisdom of states rights, eh?)

Besides, all insurance, public or private is a form of collectivism, is it not? If you buy any kind of insurance and don’t need to use it, aren’t you paying for those that do?

PTC Observer
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Gort you have it

Right, "all insurance, public or private is a form of collectivism, is it not?"

One is a forced choice and one is not, can you guess which one is which?

One is based on individual choice one is based on politics, can you guess?

Gort
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PTC_0, sometimes you use the

PTC_0, sometimes you use the words “freedom and individualism,” like a used car salesman uses the line “you’ll look good driving that car.” For the weak minded it strokes the ego but lets their guard down.

At this stage in my life “freedom and individualism,” means I can buy affordable health insurance, from a private insurance company, even though my wife has a preexisting condition. Now that’s what I call “practical home economics.”

Davids mom
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Lol - PTCO
Quote:

the outcome will speak for itself. It will be Mr. Obama's legacy, a poorer nation, with poorer healthcare, and a government that screws the middle class.

Nah - the legacy will be that he kept a country from going bankrupt while dealing with an obstructionist House; persisted in getting the man who bragged he was responsible for killing 3000 Americans in a matter of minutes; and beating the monied corporations at their money game by having the best organized election campaign that this country has seen in sometime _ TWICE!

PTC Observer
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Nah - DM

He'll be remembered for what I said, he's not alone I agree, but he's throwing gasoline on the fire.

As to his well organized campaign, can't argue that point, when you have money you can do anything. A billion bucks is a lot of money DM and we all know where it came from don't we?

Davids mom
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Yeah PTCO
Quote:

A billion bucks is a lot of money DM and we all know where it came from don't we?

Not the Koch brothers or the big time casino owners in Vegas - but the people who voted for Obama! Those billions from Republican fundraisers didn't quite get the job done that the VOTE did!

PTC Observer
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DM -

LOL

Naive DM

24 million people voted for Mr. Obama, this means that if they all gave equally they would each have paid $46, now do you really believe that happened?

There were some very special interest groups that gave to Mr. Obama in 2012, want to guess who they were DM? Bet you can't guess?

Financials (Banks)?
Corporate Greens? GE among them, they get to charge $34 for a mandated light bulb now. NO more cheap competition from incandence bulbs anymore after 2016.
Unions? Car, Government and others
Insurance companies?
Environmental Groups?

Just to name a few DM

Quit kidding yourself DM, no one in their right mind believes your assertion.

Davids mom
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Quote:

Quit kidding yourself DM, no one in their right mind believes your assertion.

The Republican Party believes it - and are trying their darndest to replicate some of the organizational/grassroots strategies of the Obama campaign. Campaigning techniques have entered the 21st century - the Obama people were slightly ahead of the curve.

The corporations, unions, etc., etc., etc., couldn't beat the PEOPLES'S vote!! What counts is Joe and Sally making it to the voting booth and casting their INDIVIDUAL ballot. The corporate money - unions - wealthy individuals - ORGANIZED CRIME , insurance companies- could not outweigh the VOTE. Big money paid for advertisement/information. People still thought, in most cases, on their own. Like the casino owner said in Vegas - he spent a lot of money on a loser.

S. Lindsey
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Naïveté thy name is DM

6 TRILLION DOLLARS more debt since he took office.. 6 TRILLION.

DM wrote:

the legacy will be that he kept a country from going bankrupt while dealing with an obstructionist House

Never a more naive statement have I read.... Tell me DM if you INCREASE your own debt and have no way to pay for it..

Do you decrease or increase the likelihood of bankruptcy...add... TRILLION dollar deficits for the next 10 years.

So really DM Obama saved us? Really?

btw-I forgot to mention add in the Fed printing $3 Billion dollars per day, $85 Billion dollars per month or $1 Trillion dollars per year in funny money... and you get a receipe for disaster.

Yeah Obama saved us all right...

suggarfoot
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kinda sad where we are going
S. Lindsey
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suggarfoot that is part of the problem

Food stamps have reached the highest levels in history, disability another record, the most people
out of the work place ever, the most people under employed then ever.
Illegals are making more off Government programs then our Citizens and welfare at it's highest ever..

The Debt and Deficits at record levels... Slowest recovery from a Ressession ever... over and over and over..

This President is breaking all kinds of records...but... the sycophants ignore all that. They just blame Bush and move on.

Note which States in your link pays the most.. All Liberal States...so the Lefts arguments that the Red Southern States gets the most but pays the least sort of falls apart doesn't?

Davids mom
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From one comment in SF's contribution
Quote:

The writers of the study are not down on poor people. They say “there is no evidence that people on welfare are lazy or do not wish to work. Indeed, surveys of welfare recipients consistently show their desire for a job.”

But they say “states should consider ways to shrink the gap between the value of welfare and work by reducing current benefit levels and tightening eligibility requirements.” But, as I said earlier, some would suggest raising the minimum wage is a better alternative.

How about paying people to work instead of unemployment benefits? The majority of the unemployed today want work! Scholars could certainly look at where we went wrong in the 40's and 50's and use the reality of 2013 to correct those mistakes and move forward. Meeting social/human needs within a budget is not impossible!

Gort
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DMom, Republican’s believe

DMom, Republican’s believe cutting food assistance is the humane thing to do if they’re ever going to ‘puppy train’ all those moochers from taking advantage of the system.

Unfortunately, the people most likely to get food assistance taken away are working families living on the edge of poverty. Die hard professional moochers and those committing fraud will still get theirs.

Perhaps the slogan “Let them eat cake,” should be added to the Republican platform.

suggarfoot
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Gort

The working poor deserve the help. The key word here is "working". What needs to be addressed is the crack heads and trash that lay up and swill the assistance.

Drug test the people getting assistance. This one simple thing would go a long way to straighten this out. Several states have done this and the criminal element has moved on to other states that are stupid enough not to.

Section Eight is a prime example of what is wrong. There is no time limit as to how long you can stay on it. I can think of one crack head renter I threw out of a relative's property. I saw her later in court with another landlord. She was bragging to the judge she had been on Section 8 for 16 years. Before I threw here out I did a background check and found she had a 17 page rap sheet. Section 8 knew this, as I faxed them a copy of it, but they continued to keep her up with federal tax dollars. People like that clog the system. I've also seen people who have been on the waiting list for S8 since 2009. The new ones I've seen are the working poor. Waiting and waiting while the crack heads enjoy the good life.

Gort
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Suggarfoot, not sure I

Suggarfoot, not sure I understand, was your renter the “crack head” or someone staying with your renter?

PTC Observer
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Living on the edge Gort

"Unfortunately, the people most likely to get food assistance taken away are working families living on the edge of poverty. Die hard professional moochers and those committing fraud will still get theirs."

Why do you suppose there are working families living on the edge of poverty Gort?

Just curious on your take on this.

Gort
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PTC_0, because they don’t

PTC_0, because they don’t earn enough money at work, dah!

Davids mom
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To conservatives like SL

What is of more value - the all mighty dollar or the welfare and health of the living beings in our country? We and the world are in a mess because of a failure to work together to maintain health, infrastructure , and the everyday needs of the majority of the populace. The top 1 percent of humans on this earth appear to be in control, and the rest of us are truly struggling. Now if you think this vision of mine is naive , fine. But this is the human condition that fosters revolution. We, in the United States have the guideline (the Constitution) to work together to solve problems. The Congress of this country represents the people of this country, and as of today, they have the lowest rating of public support in history. For any member of this Congress to claim that they represent the 'people' is a misreading of support.

Yeah, the majority of the citizens in this country have more confidence in Obama than in Romney, Palin, Westmoreland, Cruz and others who refuse to acknowledge 'social' concerns of others / like eating, working, safety, education, world peace, etc., etc., etc. How has this constant obstructionist approach 'saved' this country? Thanks for the show and introduction to acts of futility. Obama will veto the House defunding attempt so that our men and women in uniform can get their meager paychecks for serving our country, so that more millions will not be unemployed in October. Unless someone listens to Karl Rove instead of the radical Tea Party, there is no way that the possible shut down will be blamed on anyone but the Republicans. Stand by your fiscal principals, but wake up!! The rest of the country is not in as good shape as the residents of FC. Who cares if you lost $30,000 in house value? There are too many Americans who have lost their homes!

Cyclist
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Davids mom - The Dollar and Healthcare for All

How do you plan on paying for this scheme?

S. Lindsey
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Ahh there's the rub Cy

They believe actually believe that we can spend, create more funny money
And then spend it too and it will all just somehow work out ok.

Economics101 is beyond them.

Cyclist
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Hey SL Economics 101 for liberals

Goes something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ZO7XOpwa8

If you got a business...somebody else made that happen. (Eyes Rolling)

Anywas, hello from the beach....I wish it would stop raining.

S. Lindsey
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Ahh the beach life

Catching anything

Cyclist
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SL

No. The surf is too high to venture out. Hopefully it will come down in a few days.

S. Lindsey
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Cy be careful be safe....

.... need to have the house checked on let me know...

Gort
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Cyclist, is the place you’re

Cyclist, is the place you’re staying at on the beach have government subsidized flood insurance?

Cyclist
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Gort - The Beach

Beats me if they have subsidized flood insurance. I come here to play with those pesky fish.

BTW, what about those reports of employers cutting work hours to avoid Obamacare cost. Gee and Polesi said:

But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it...

Gort
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Cyclist, my guess is they do.

Cyclist, my guess is they do. Enjoy the facilities, the financial risks are subsidized by taxpayers and makes it all possible.

Employers cutting workers hours to avoid paying health care will increase their head count, increase training cost, and lose the best workers to other companies. In the end they will out fox themselves.

If they were smart they would increase the hours to full time, lower their head count, and attract the best employees to their company.

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Gort & Employers

Think you've got it bass-ackwards. If they keep 40-hr weekly workers, they have to provide health insurance. So they reduce hrs, no rqmt to provide health insurance. They may have 30 part time workers instead of 18 full-tmeworkers. Less expense for the employer (the numbers aren't exact but you get the idea---well maybe you don't.

Davids mom
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Ethics

Elect leaders who exhibit ethics n governing - Republican, Democrat, Libertarian , Independent ! Then have them tackle fraud and corruption that is eating up our 'budget '. It 's not a scheme / we've had too much of those already .

Cyclist
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I understand Davids mom...

it's a difficult question. But please do tell us how to fund this scheme.

Davids mom
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Cyclist

I'm sure if you had the answer, you 'd share it. I truly believe that teamwork with intelligent,ethical leaders Is required to get us out of this mess. Americans did it after the tragedy of the 30's. We did not outsource jobs; we focused on education; but unfortunately we cannot/should not enter a wartime economy. What elements are always present in successful solutions? COOPERATION; Goal Setting; willingness to sacrifice on all levels; an informed citizenry . Americans have done the impossible in the past. First we have to get the ethical leaders in place - regardless of political party.

S. Lindsey
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.... And to Progessives like DM

The only one who needs to get a clue are those like you that
believe we all can live in type of utopian Society when you have half
the Country paying the freight for the other half.

That's not fairness that's economic terrorism.

Oh and btw those that bought a Macmansion while working at McDonalds
and couldn't pay for it then lost it why exactly should I feel sorry for
them?
What Goverment program helped me to buy my home? What Goverment
program pays my salary? What Goverment program pays my bills DM?

That's right NONE.... I work I am responsible for my own choices and
I make my own way Thank you...

Also I know it escapes you but the House bill only defunds that boondoggle
Program of Obamacare not the military or any things else.

Nice bit of propaganda though....

Davids mom
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Deleted by poster

.

Davids mom
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SL

Keep posting SL. You're an example of an uninformed citizenry . The residents of Georgia are intelligent and can make an informed decision. Why the need for not informing them. Other states (yes Red States) are making sure their citizens are informed. As long as there are uninsured citizens, you and I pay for their healthcare. However, citizens have the right to not be punished if they elect not to be covered by government. The 'rich' may decide to pay for their own healthcare. SL the manipulators have successfully taken our eye off of the real problem - the cost of healthcare. rather than the cost of the insurance. But keep sharing your infinite wisdom, it just makes the MODERATES work harder to offset the radical left and right. Have a great week!

You know SL - in this world, the United States is as close to a Utopian government as any on this earth - and those of us who are fortunate enough to have benefitted from free education, the protection of a superior military; the fairness of the words in our Constitution, etc., etc., etc. are grateful.

Davids mom
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SL -2
Quote:

Also I know it escapes you but the House bill only defunds that boondoggle
Program of Obamacare not the military or any things else.

Leadership by afterthought. The country is tired of this non-leadership from the House. Fiscal responsibility is important - but reason has been tainted by the anti-Obama crowd.

stranger than f...
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Congratulations, Mr. Lindsay

I think it is marvelous that you have a house financed by a private mortgage firm, a private sector job, and the ability to pay your monthly bills without any government subsidies. It sounds like you are living the American dream, and well you should.

In order for you and I to live this well, the government (federal, state, and local) has provided plenty of help. Government has given us an extensive transportation system, control of the air traffic, law enforcement, a system of courts to mete out justice, regulation of monopolies to maintain a level playing field, and freedom to pursue any life position we desire free from a caste system. Our government provides a national defense that keeps most of us safe from foreign armed attacks. Many of us also have enjoyed government sponsored public schooling and well subsidized college and graduate educations. These are just a few ways that we are blessed by U.S. government benefits; there are many others.

It’s great that you have accomplished so much. We live in a great country that supports its citizens well! Congratulations.

Davids mom
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SL 3

Macmansions and McDonalds? That's a stretch - and part of a sick propaganda stick. Talk to the young people who were working and lost their job ; the job with healthcare benefits - and found themselves dealing with an illness; they can't afford the proper care because of lack of funds AND insurance. They have pride, have tried to keep up with their bills without getting in over their heads with credit - but in order to eat, they did accept help in the form of food stamps - and are called 'moochers, free loaders, etc., etc., etc. The tone of the Republican Party, as expressed by some in this discussion, has turned off the women, minorities, and the youth (the future) of this country, I'm just sharing my opinion of some of what I read in some words expressed here. I honestly believe that most Republicans in this country do not base their opinion on what yours seems to be based on.

S. Lindsey
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Wow 3 separate replies...

DM are you have a hard time keeping a cognitive thought together?

Love how, as your usual wont is to do, start with a insult and then proceed to preach what you believe to be the truth to heck with the facts...

After all that is what you guys do best.. ignore facts that is..

HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT ALL?

Just answer that one little question for me will ya?

Davids mom
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SL
Quote:

HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT ALL?

Like we paid for:

1. The Atom Bomb
2. World Ward I and II
3. Korean War
4. Iraq and all of our involvement in the Middle East
5. Like we paid for SS and Medicare and Medicaid - and at the end of the Clinton years - had a surplus

Are we listening to the economists or to the politicians? Are we willing as a nation to sacrifice in order for our children to have at least some of the opportunities that we had in order to approach 'middle class living' - or are we set on holding on to our middle class standard, allowing the top 1% become even wealthier, and watching so many American families slip back into poverty?

History shows that when Americans in the past were in need, they worked together to sacrifice and meet the need. They did not call others 'moochers', losers' lazy etc., from their slowly disappearing 'middle class status'. In all of the tragic situations that we have been involved in before and after 9/11 - I have seen glimpses of that Americanism in action - it's just that in too many 'blog' like discussions, the hate, distrust, and unwillingness to cooperate with other Americans comes to the forefront. I AM NOT TALKING JUST ABOUT OUR RACIAL PROBLEMS - but including regionalism, elitism, classism, etc., etc., etc.

What I have perceived is for some, there is no longer room for cooperation or listening to the 'other guy's view' - but my way or the highway attitude. If we look at the successes in our history - they came about because those with different views came together, and worked out their problems (after the Civil War) peaceably. When you listen to the two 'sides' of many of our conflicts in the US, there are areas where the two 'sides' have common goals. That's a beginning for cooperative effort in finding pathways to achieving goals. IMHO.

Davids mom
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PTCO

ALERT - PTCO. Obama won. This poor little ole black women raised substantially more than $46 to support Obama - and so did a lot of others. Yes, as in all elections in this country - big money from the wealthy and powerful was spent on the campaigns of both candidates. Nothing new there - but thanks for the information. Funny money was printed during the Iraq war - and where is it? You know what - you have done quite a bit of thoughtful work showing what is wrong with our country and how we're going to hel-- - I just wish that you and others could use some of that thought process to help us with a recipe for getting out of this mess that we and the rest of the world are in right now. This old lady is naive - but hopeful - since I have seen this country recover from some devastating situations. As individuals in FC and other parts of our country, the American dream is being realized. As we try to turn around our mistakes, we should pause, look at our successes - and learn from them. Thank heavens for people like Gates and other entrepreneurs who are always looking at how to improve rather than to destroy. . . .and not afraid to share so that others may benefit from their discoveries. This country was founded by men and women looking for a UTOPIA. What has been created isn't so bad. Right?

PTC Observer
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Gee Longtimer

Like global warming? Or the Energy "problem"? Or monopolies? Or alcohol consumption?! I could go on and on and on.

Now here's the most important question, why do they do it?

I'll just bet you know!

stranger than f...
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Longtimer, your Hegelian Dialectic criticism is bogus

The Hegelian Dialectic does not suppose an unrealistic thesis. Indeed, any thesis can be opposed by an antithesis with a synthesis resulting to resolve the dilemma. This constitutes an intelligent strategy to resolve a conflict.

There was no trumped up need for the Federal Reserve System before its creation in 1913, but rather a real run on the banks in 1907 that threatened the stabilization of the banking system. Likewise, there was no trumped up crisis of healthcare costs and the inability of many who have pre-existing conditions to gain adequate health insurance before Obamacare was passed in 2010. You may disagree with the U.S. government’s solutions to both of these problems; however, to postulate that the government created the perception of a problem "ex nihilo" requires a complete indoctrination in ultra-right wing nonsense.

It is one thing to argue ideology that is open to different interpretations given one’s basic premises. It is quite another to deny verifiable historical fact. Your best bet is to turn off Fox "News" in favor of an unbiased source of information.

S. Lindsey
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Affordable Care Act -Yes let's stay informed..

According to Forbes today...

Forbes wrote:

Between 2014 and 2022, the increase in national health spending (which the Medicare actuaries specifically attribute to the law) amounts to $7,450 per family of 4.

Now I seem to remember a Senator Obama while campaighning for President said this:

Obama wrote:

“In an Obama administration, we’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year….. We’ll do it by the end of my first term as President of the United States.”

I mean are you really shocked? A Government program is going to cost more then advertised and a Politician lied and told us only what
he wanted us to hear..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/23/its-official-obamac...

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